The Great Tree

D'Jerid · Explorer Joined: 12 Mar 2006 Posts: 14

I was in The Great Tree 'hood tonight when all of a sudden Rand popped in. As you can imagine, a crowd started growing around him, and then we were all invited to The Desert 'Hood by Kendri to a meeting about fan created Ages. Here is the chatlog that I kept of our conversation:

(03/31 18:24:48) Chat.log started...
(03/31 18:25:03) *Moietay waves
(03/31 18:25:09) Rand waves
(03/31 18:25:14) Kedri waves
(03/31 18:25:16) D'Jerid waves
(03/31 18:25:24) J'anim Paedet waves
(03/31 18:25:24) ShadowDude: oh wow I just completely froze up, lol
(03/31 18:25:49) Kedri: Hehe, good thing you're still here :)
(03/31 18:26:27) J'anim Paedet: The Ages can be linked to directly via a Relto linking book
(03/31 18:26:38) Kedri: That is, a book on Relto
(03/31 18:26:48) J'anim Paedet: ...in any Volcano-enabled shard, that is.
(03/31 18:26:59) Kedri: We have 3 right now.
(03/31 18:27:05) Kedri: 2 are public.
(03/31 18:27:20) Kedri: I think we might have lost SD...
(03/31 18:27:27) J'anim Paedet: At this point, the project is in a sort of pre-release stage
(03/31 18:27:28) ShadowDude: nope, I'm still here
(03/31 18:27:37) Kedri: Ah. Ok
(03/31 18:27:43) J'anim Paedet: Good :)
(03/31 18:28:03) ShadowDude: might be good if I gave you some URL's to look at
(03/31 18:28:30) ShadowDude: http://uru.zrax.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=158
(03/31 18:28:43) Kedri: Try uru.zrax.net/forums, and then in the "Volcano part.
(03/31 18:29:12) Rand: it's cool stuff - i've seen the proposal
(03/31 18:29:31) Kedri: That was made by Robert The Rebuilder.
(03/31 18:29:34) ShadowDude: (I'm horrible at giving speeches off the fly, if you can't tell)
(03/31 18:29:51) Kedri: (Was that proposal the cause of the meeting?)
(03/31 18:30:23) Rand: which meeting?
(03/31 18:30:33) Kedri: Here and now meeting.
(03/31 18:30:36) Rand: we've talked about the proposal a bit
(03/31 18:30:51) Rand: this is just a meeting i stumbled upon
(03/31 18:30:53) D'Jerid: Would users be able to add or delete Ages from their bookshelves if there are too many new ages to completely fit?
(03/31 18:30:55) Rand: impromptu
(03/31 18:30:57) Rand: :)
(03/31 18:31:14) J'anim Paedet: It was proposed a few minutes prior on Age Builder
(03/31 18:31:15) Kedri: Nothing like an Uru official to draw crowds.
(03/31 18:31:15) ShadowDude: actually all the ages are handled in one book
(03/31 18:31:22) D'Jerid: Oh, OK.
(03/31 18:31:34) Legacy: Will these ages ever be available D'mala? Quite a few people (including me) don't have access to the other shards.
(03/31 18:31:53) Kedri: nearly 2,00 of you! Rand?
(03/31 18:31:57) ShadowDude: I guess you'd have to ask Rand about that one ;)
(03/31 18:32:01) Kedri: 2,000
(03/31 18:32:01) Legacy: On D'mala* (hehe gammar is a weak point of mine)
(03/31 18:32:27) Rand: this has to do with the future (c.o.)
(03/31 18:32:37) Rand: we want "writers"
(03/31 18:32:46) J'anim Paedet: Ah, yes. That mysterious future...
(03/31 18:32:50) Rand: and that's what we're talking about really
(03/31 18:32:50) Legacy: Cautious optimism then? ;)
(03/31 18:32:54) ShadowDude: If you'd like we can give you access to our test server, Rand
(03/31 18:33:01) D'Jerid: How exactly would we be able to create Ages?
(03/31 18:33:21) Rand: for now the tools are just what you have
(03/31 18:33:26) Rand: but picture this...
(03/31 18:33:45) From Kedri: D'Jerid, see "alcugs.almlys.dyns.net/wiki and look for "PRPBlender plugin"
(03/31 18:33:57) Rand: if things start up again - tools might be slowly released...
(03/31 18:34:01) To Kedri: Last time I checked it was not available to the public.
(03/31 18:34:12) Rand: so that you guys become writers...
(03/31 18:34:13) From Kedri: Look again ;)
(03/31 18:34:29) To Kedri: OK, thanks.
(03/31 18:34:37) Rand: and maybe after ages are tested (maintaners?)...
(03/31 18:34:50) Kedri: Ooh! Ooh! Let me! :P
(03/31 18:35:10) Rand: then they can be added to a section of Uru Live (not UU)
(03/31 18:35:17) J'anim Paedet: Exciting times, to be sure!
(03/31 18:35:35) Kedri nods his head
(03/31 18:35:38) Rand: that's a vision that we have - if we get a chance to move forward
(03/31 18:35:55) Legacy: *sigh* I've always been terrible with this whole "patience" thing. The sooner the better. :P
(03/31 18:35:58) J'anim Paedet: Best of luck to you, then!
(03/31 18:35:58) Rand: so for now - the work you do would create a kind of test area...
(03/31 18:36:19) ShadowDude: :)
(03/31 18:36:25) Rand: for the very first writers to experiment in - right?
(03/31 18:36:34) Kedri: Uh huh.
(03/31 18:36:42) ShadowDude: Yes
(03/31 18:36:49) J'anim Paedet: Indeed
(03/31 18:36:57) Rand: but the goal would be to have a part of live that was reserved for fan ages that could be...
(03/31 18:37:24) Rand: verified (maintainers?) and maybe mapped (cartographers?)
(03/31 18:37:29) Kedri: We also have the Uru Age Manager" for offline testing in PotS.
(03/31 18:37:40) Rand: right
(03/31 18:37:52) J'anim Paedet: Like a living, breathing version of what Live could be!
(03/31 18:38:21) Kedri: Mapped...I think they're trying to start the Uru mapping projects up again.
(03/31 18:38:22) Rand: yeah - we're hoping that Uru Live won't JUST be the ages that we add - but the ages...
(03/31 18:38:30) Rand: of new writers as well
(03/31 18:38:36) Kedri: : )
(03/31 18:38:39) Rand: :)
(03/31 18:38:45) Ural: :)
(03/31 18:38:50) Legacy: :)
(03/31 18:38:53) J'anim Paedet: Sounds great -- something to anticipate!
(03/31 18:38:58) ShadowDude: here's hoping :)
(03/31 18:38:58) Rand: c.o.
(03/31 18:39:01) Rand: :)
(03/31 18:39:08) J'anim Paedet: :)
(03/31 18:39:23) Rand: we've still got work to do on our end to release better tools...
(03/31 18:39:35) Rand: but that's where we'd like to head
(03/31 18:39:45) J'anim Paedet: better tools sound good...
(03/31 18:39:51) ShadowDude: Is that to say they're currently in development?
(03/31 18:39:57) Rand: and it would still be hard at the beginning to write new ages
(03/31 18:40:18) Rand: but maybe it would get easier over time
(03/31 18:40:33) Kedri: Would it be possible to import them from the current age building software?
(03/31 18:40:36) J'anim Paedet: So a sort of work in progress, for all of us
(03/31 18:40:54) Rand: the first step is just releasing some of the tools that we use (which are...
(03/31 18:41:06) Rand: based on 3D studio max)
(03/31 18:41:21) Kedri: Hmm....
(03/31 18:41:42) Kedri: What were you saying, SD?
(03/31 18:41:56) ShadowDude: ?
(03/31 18:42:11) Kedri: Your speech.
(03/31 18:42:26) ShadowDude: oh that's kind of over I guess...
(03/31 18:42:41) Rand: does that fit with where you guys want to go?
(03/31 18:42:49) Kedri nods his head
(03/31 18:42:57) ShadowDude: yes, it definetly does
(03/31 18:42:58) Kedri: As long as we get fan ages!
(03/31 18:42:58) J'anim Paedet: oh, certainy
(03/31 18:43:33) Kedri: SD, weren't you going to address some stuff, though?
(03/31 18:43:47) Rand: it's cool because it fits so well with what D'ni is (the ability to write links to new worlds)
(03/31 18:43:56) Rand: a whole new d'ni
(03/31 18:44:05) Kedri: To quote Yeesha.
(03/31 18:44:17) Rand: :)
(03/31 18:44:21) Chrome: me fpr example
(03/31 18:44:27) Legacy: Oh no, not a Yeesha quote!
(03/31 18:44:34) ShadowDude: lol
(03/31 18:44:40) Kedri: Are they too long? ;)
(03/31 18:44:48) J'anim Paedet: They can pop up anywhere :)
(03/31 18:45:22) Legacy: that, and it makes me thing too hard
(03/31 18:45:29) Legacy: *think
(03/31 18:45:38) ShadowDude: Rand, if you or anyone at Cyan would like to test our project first hand, just ask :)
(03/31 18:45:40) Rand: the hard part now is that you guys are building stuff without knowing exactly how it will fit with stuff later
(03/31 18:45:45) Legacy: (ack! I mispelled somthing in the presence of Rand!)
(03/31 18:45:58) *Moietay starts to laugh
(03/31 18:46:03) Rand: i'm sure we'll be checking it out
(03/31 18:46:22) ShadowDude: :)
(03/31 18:46:28) Rand: don't mispell wehn i'm here
(03/31 18:46:56) Kedri: As long as the models can be imported into your tools, there would be little trouble in re-creating their interaction with the avatar.
(03/31 18:46:57) D'Jerid laughs
(03/31 18:47:12) Rand: how do you build the models now?
(03/31 18:47:19) J'anim Paedet: Using Blender
(03/31 18:47:20) Kedri: In Blender.
(03/31 18:47:30) ShadowDude: almlys has a Blender plugin that can export models to Uru
(03/31 18:47:31) Kedri: See blender.org
(03/31 18:47:50) J'anim Paedet: The models are exported using the prp plugin directly in Blender
(03/31 18:47:51) Kedri: Or alcugs.almlys.dyns.net
(03/31 18:48:39) Rand: can blender models get into 3d max
(03/31 18:48:47) Rand: ?
(03/31 18:48:47) Legacy: I've used blender before...maybe I could make a floating-spere-with-pretty-colors age. (that's about all I can do with it :P )
(03/31 18:49:04) ShadowDude: That I don't know...
(03/31 18:49:05) Legacy: *sphere (not again!)
(03/31 18:49:11) ShadowDude: lol@Legacy
(03/31 18:49:13) J'anim Paedet: Yes, and 3DSMax can be imported into Blender
(03/31 18:49:25) *Moietay: Well that beats what I can do, Legacy : )
(03/31 18:49:30) Rand: great
(03/31 18:49:50) Legacy laughs
(03/31 18:50:01) J'anim Paedet: what I'm worried about is the programming aspect of the conversions
(03/31 18:50:18) Rand: i'm sure the first ages are gonna be pretty simple
(03/31 18:50:25) Kedri: That's MUCH easier than a good 3d model ;)
(03/31 18:50:25) Rand: but very cool
(03/31 18:50:38) J'anim Paedet: True, just look at the first on UAM! :)
(03/31 18:50:47) Kedri: Have you seen any of the fan ages, Rand?
(03/31 18:50:56) Rand: what programming? python stuff?
(03/31 18:51:11) Kedri: Anything that isn't the 3d model :P
(03/31 18:51:27) Kedri: Footstep regions, linking books, ect.
(03/31 18:51:29) J'anim Paedet: I meant more along the lines of Blender-inputted prp programming
(03/31 18:51:36) J'anim Paedet: Yes, that :)
(03/31 18:51:42) Myridean: I tend to think of them of probably learning ages
(03/31 18:51:43) Rand: the tools that we need to provide would be related to that stuff
(03/31 18:51:59) ShadowDude: ah, well that's good
(03/31 18:52:12) Rand: but i'm a bit out of my element here
(03/31 18:52:22) J'anim Paedet: (and J'anim breathes a quiet sigh of releaf)
(03/31 18:52:42) Rand: i just like giving you guys the vision so you have a feel for where things are going
(03/31 18:52:43) J'anim Paedet: (and miss-spells the word)
(03/31 18:52:50) ShadowDude laughs
(03/31 18:52:58) Kedri: Well, if worse comes to worse, the fan age tools could be for hypercard :P
(03/31 18:53:13) J'anim Paedet: I did that once! Lots of fun :)
(03/31 18:53:16) Rand: yeah!!!
(03/31 18:53:18) Rand: :)
(03/31 18:53:21) Rand: lol
(03/31 18:53:22) Kedri: So did I.
(03/31 18:53:35) Kedri: Good tool, hypercard...
(03/31 18:53:41) J'anim Paedet: Got a very good impression of the Manhole going for a while...
(03/31 18:53:54) Kedri: Myst was based on Hypercard.
(03/31 18:54:05) J'anim Paedet: Yes, as was Riven, I believe
(03/31 18:54:07) Rand: yep - the good ol days
(03/31 18:54:08) Rand: ;)
(03/31 18:54:17) Eedrah: in my Relto even though ive finished Uru the clefts there!
(03/31 18:54:26) Kedri: When Macs RULED the Earth...
(03/31 18:54:38) J'anim Paedet: :) :) :)
(03/31 18:55:01) ShadowDude: Macs, heh
(03/31 18:55:06) Kedri: Speaking of which, is a mac port of Uru at all promising right now?
(03/31 18:55:07) Legacy: Classic Myst, good times :)
(03/31 18:56:01) Rand: would love to have a mac port - still hoping (but right now we're hoping just to bring Uru Live back)
(03/31 18:56:06) Rand: hope overload
(03/31 18:56:08) Rand: :)
(03/31 18:56:18) *Moietay cheers
(03/31 18:56:26) J'anim Paedet: One thing at a time, of course... But that would be great!
(03/31 18:56:34) Legacy: It seems as if Cyan has a pretty big "to do" list right now...
(03/31 18:56:40) Rand: oh yeah
(03/31 18:56:56) Rand: hope you get to see some of it ;)
(03/31 18:56:56) Myridean: And then trying to work the community's projects in for coordination
(03/31 18:57:20) Kedri: Back to fan ages...
(03/31 18:57:30) J'anim Paedet: right.
(03/31 18:57:38) Kedri: Will the tools have to ability to re-create the Cyan ages?
(03/31 18:58:02) Rand: i think the tools at first will be related to the same tools we use
(03/31 18:58:20) Rand: which means we could provide examples of our own ages
(03/31 18:58:27) Legacy: *cough* Todelmer *cough* :)
(03/31 18:58:32) Rand: (is that what you mean?)
(03/31 18:58:37) Kedri: Yup.
(03/31 18:59:17) Myridean: Rand, what is your vision for the growing collection will it be housed in the city or will there be a new library?
(03/31 18:59:19) Demose: just passing by
(03/31 18:59:33) Kedri: Another question I've been waiting to ask - Will the first Myst islands ever bee imported into Uru?
(03/31 18:59:56) Rand: we're still discussing it - want it to be easily accessable but separate
(03/31 19:00:21) Rand: myst content in Uru - only if we find those books ;)
(03/31 19:00:39) J'anim Paedet: Well, keep looking! :)
(03/31 19:00:48) Kedri: I have the Myst linking book on my second Relto...
(03/31 19:00:57) Myridean: so, two collections: Cyan's ages and fan ages then?
(03/31 19:01:13) Rand: yeah - something like that
(03/31 19:01:35) J'anim Paedet: Probably a good idea to keep them somewhat seperate
(03/31 19:01:36) Lady Chaos: Shorah.
(03/31 19:01:42) Rand: right
(03/31 19:01:47) *Moietay: Shorah LC
(03/31 19:01:49) ShadowDude: oh, forgot to mention that the project also allows us to visit Pots ages online as well (and have them be much more stable than alcugs).
(03/31 19:01:49) J'anim Paedet: shorah!
(03/31 19:01:50) Myridean: Could one system of library classification and cataloguing standards be applied?
(03/31 19:01:58) Chrome: shorah
(03/31 19:02:03) Rand: hmmm - maybe
(03/31 19:02:17) Rand: if there was some way to indicate the age of a book
(03/31 19:02:28) J'anim Paedet: yes, a little organization would be nice
(03/31 19:02:33) Rand: we would know if it was done by a "new" writer
(03/31 19:02:58) Kedri: What about the fabled "Second linking bookcase" on Relto?
(03/31 19:03:27) Rand: might even need more than two!! :)
(03/31 19:03:37) J'anim Paedet cheers
(03/31 19:03:39) Kedri: I hope so!
(03/31 19:03:49) Myridean: Well, that's why the Vivarium was originally in the creation of a new library
(03/31 19:04:08) Myridean: The amount of new ages once the tools were released would grow quickly
(03/31 19:04:25) Kedri: And what about the prefix problem?
(03/31 19:04:32) Rand: yeah - and the quality would grow as well
(03/31 19:04:34) Myridean: And having a system in place beforehand on how to manage that
(03/31 19:04:51) Myridean: Oh definitely!
(03/31 19:04:58) Myridean: lol
(03/31 19:05:13) Rand: what's the prefix problem?
(03/31 19:05:19) Kedri: Aren't there only 10,000 prefixes or something?
(03/31 19:05:29) Kedri: (Only, yup!)
(03/31 19:05:40) J'anim Paedet: If two ages of the same prefix are released, the system will crash
(03/31 19:05:40) Rand: lol
(03/31 19:05:50) Rand: i hope we have a prefix problem!!!
(03/31 19:05:55) Rand: :)
(03/31 19:05:57) J'anim Paedet: lol
(03/31 19:05:59) ShadowDude: lol
(03/31 19:06:13) Kedri: Because we already have something like 500 prefixes reserved.
(03/31 19:06:19) J'anim Paedet: It would be a good idea to check the Alcugs list, I think
(03/31 19:06:33) J'anim Paedet: its fairly extensive
(03/31 19:06:52) Rand: i've gotta get going - this has been fun
(03/31 19:06:59) Rand: thanks for letting me chat
(03/31 19:07:09) ShadowDude: been great talking to you Rand, take care!
(03/31 19:07:13) Kedri: Thanks for answering our millions of questions!
(03/31 19:07:13) *Moietay: Thanks Rand! Shorah!
(03/31 19:07:15) Rand: hope i didn't disrupt the meeting too much
(03/31 19:07:19) J'anim Paedet: Thanks for coming! Great speaking with you!
(03/31 19:07:24) *Moietay waves
(03/31 19:07:27) D'Jerid: Thanks a bunch!
(03/31 19:07:30) Myridean: no, thank you, you've helped us probably quite a bit
(03/31 19:07:34) ShadowDude: actually you made it better than I had hoped :)
(03/31 19:07:40) Chrome: yeah thx
(03/31 19:07:40) Rand: thanks for all your support - couldn't do this without you
(03/31 19:07:47) J'anim Paedet: :)
(03/31 19:07:55) D'Jerid: And we couldn't do it without you and the rest of Cyan.
(03/31 19:07:57) J'anim Paedet waves
(03/31 19:08:05) Kedri: By the way, how many invites are there now?
(03/31 19:08:09) TheFourthDoctor: Shorah folks!
(03/31 19:08:20) Rand: hope to see you soon - trying to get down here more often (if only work didn't get in the way!)
(03/31 19:08:22) Rand: :)
(03/31 19:08:23) Kedri: Shorah, Tom Baker!
(03/31 19:08:35) ShadowDude: :)
(03/31 19:08:36) ShadowDude waves
(03/31 19:08:38) Kedri waves
(03/31 19:08:41) J'anim Paedet: Well, its good work :)
(03/31 19:08:48) TheFourthDoctor: Hello Rand. Nice to finally meet you.
(03/31 19:09:01) TheFourthDoctor waves
(03/31 19:09:10) Kedri: Unfortunately, He's just leaving :(
(03/31 19:09:11) D'Jerid: Bye, Rand! I'll keep working on those puzzles...
(03/31 19:09:12) Rand: not sure on invites - haven't check recently
(03/31 19:09:16) *Moietay waves
(03/31 19:09:16) Rand: bye for now
(03/31 19:09:18) TheFourthDoctor: my luck again.
(03/31 19:09:18) Rand waves
(03/31 19:09:21) D'Jerid waves
(03/31 19:09:21) Kedri: Bye
(03/31 19:09:23) Ural: Bye
(03/31 19:09:24) J'anim Paedet: Bye, and thanks again!
(03/31 19:09:24) Legacy waves
(03/31 19:09:26) Kedri waves
(03/31 19:09:28) J'anim Paedet waves
(03/31 19:09:31) Chrome: bye
(03/31 19:09:33) Ural waves
(03/31 19:09:35) Legacy: bye
(03/31 19:09:48) ...Chat.log stopped.

Jon · Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 11:24 am Post subject:

You know, the idea of a huge part of the game being player-created content is actually pretty in vogue these days (see Spore). This sort of pitch might be exactly the sort of thing that would convince the bean-counters to fund Cyan...
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Rils · Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 12:23 pm Post subject:

yeah, but are we all going to have to turn into computer programmers to participate? I know nothing about using these complex computer modelling programs, to say nothing of not havng the funds to go purchase them. How does the average joe player get involved in this?

~Rils
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dcos · Great Tree Member Joined: 21 Feb 2006 Posts: 1174

Well Rand says it will be difficult to start with, maybe as Cyan has more time (and money) to work with more intuitive programs will be made available?

Just guessing here

Cycreim · Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 7:23 pm Post subject:

Personally, I'd love to see the "simple Age writing" thing go toward Relto. That was how I originally imagined "having your own Age" when I first read about it in the early, early MUDPIE previews.

You could drop a lake here, put a tree there... I wonder if, given enough time, we could start with Relto and turn it into whatever sort of Age we wanted.
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Rils · Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:08 am Post subject:

See, that's what I was thinking too. Lots of games have "world builders", "level creators", etc. Simple tools to raise or lower the ground level, add in water, change surface textures, dot in trees and bushes. That's something even *I* understand! You could even market it in separate/expansion packs - Outdoor locations (hills, lakes, trees, etc), Indoor locations (buildings, rooms, furniture, etc), Unique environments (crystal textures, or different things like the basalt columns of Amateria), Creature Creator, etc. That'd be simply just awesome...

~Rils
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Cycreim · Posted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 10:06 am Post subject:

As long as the focus of the game stays on exploration and not on Age building, it'll be great!

My experience with worldbuilding is relegated to multi-user text-based-games. There's this phenomenon I call "overbuilding". The process of building worlds is so much fun that people sometimes go way overboard and build so much that the environment is flooded with amateur material. So you end up with a huge sprawling world of places that, potentially, every player but the builder would find dull to explore. It's a harsh thing to say but man I've seen it happen so often.
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Professor Askew · Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:55 am Post subject:

Wow. I've never heard Rand talk much about this aspect of Uru. Very interesting.
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Rils · Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:11 pm Post subject:

Yeah, Cyc, I agree with your concept of overbuilding. There would have to be some sort of quality control on it. Or have a way to access the Ages maybe independant of game play. Only the very best could be recognized by Cyan as "canon" and included in the game maybe...

Or, we could just VOTE on them, maybe once a quarter or so... Laughing

~Rils
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CuzinJohn · Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 9:34 am Post subject:

As we know... ages were *never* made available for people to use until the Maintainer's Guild approved them.... well except for Atrus' family's more recent ages... there weren't any Maintainers anyhow...

What I'm saying is, perhaps write-your-own ages would need to be 'approved'... y'know... for safety reasons. Wink

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ghaelen · Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:12 pm Post subject:

This is neat. Very neat.

I'd like to add a self-building bridge to my Relto that extended as I walked. And then some far off mountains and islands of trees to walk to.

And I'd really like another dance-step to do... Wink

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