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Bahro stones

 
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Xptql
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2004 12:43 pm    Post subject: Bahro stones Reply with quote

The bahro stones have been shown to be vastly superior to books, in that books always link to one specific spatial coordinate, thus making linking willy-nilly into places like Gahreesen impossible, because you may end up in a wall while it passes over the fixed link in spot.

And yet with the stone from Teledahn we can link directly into one of the cells in the second building, and we always link into the Same cell, no matter when we link. So obviously they aren't linking to co-ordinates, but to the actual location itself. Obviously the D'ni masters of The Art could not do this thing, and so that leads one to ponder how it is that the Bahro can?

Perhaps it is because they were never forally taught what they cannot do, so they simply did what they wanted.

I am simply curious about other people's thoughts on the Bahro Stones, as opposed to books, as linking technologies.

Almost seems like a Holistic way of linking compared to a Scientific way of linking that the books became.
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NSymon
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2004 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes the Bahro stones are very interesting. Like you say Gahreesen is a perfect example of this with the stone in Teledahn linking you into that prison cell, the same prison cell all the time regardless of the rotation of the building.

Everbody seems to put the Bahro people down to beast like monsters and I know this translates to beast people, but it seems there skill and knowledge of linking could be superior to the D'ni peope. Maybe it's the other way round? The D'ni learnt the art from the Bahro, but the Bahro only gave them so much of that knowledge.
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Elspeth
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2004 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm, I'm not sure that linking to a location (rather than a set of coordinates) was beyond the D'ni. Personally I tend to think it's one of the choices a Writer can make, and the Maintainers' choice is the unusual one. That's just my idea, I don't think there's enough information in canon to tell for sure.

Now the Bahro linking technology... we don't know much about it at all, do we. Just the presence of these odd linking stones, which don't look like Books, and Yeesha's comment that the Bahro could link.

My own theory is that the Bahro and the Ronay each developed Linking technology, indpendent of each other. But what we learn later could change that...
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Xptql
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2004 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think it was beyond the ability of the D'ni writers to write to a place instead of a set of coordinates, but perhaps one of the laws of The Art was that you had to link to coordinates, and through the decades, that changed from law, to common knowledge, to rule of nature. And they forgot that it was even theoretically possible.

I think that the D'ni use The Great Zero to write links to ages, and that's why they use coordinates. Maybe linking to a location is imprecise since a location can change, so they don't bother. These are all things I'd like to explorer further.
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Professor Askew
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2004 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In one of the books in Atrus' Library on Myst he talks about trying to create Links using stones instead of books. I'm playing RealMyst right now and this is why it occured to me. I'll come back later and edit this post with a more direct quote from the journal. But, it appears to me that the use of stones may have originated with Atrus.
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NSymon
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2004 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Professor Askew wrote:
In one of the books in Atrus' Library on Myst he talks about trying to create Links using stones instead of books. I'm playing RealMyst right now and this is why it occured to me. I'll come back later and edit this post with a more direct quote from the journal. But, it appears to me that the use of stones may have originated with Atrus.


I ordered Real Myst from Amazon a couple of days ago, and I'm looking forward to going back and seeing it all again. The original no longer plays Sad But please do post the qoute from Atrus's journal. I'd love to read it.
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Zen-17
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2004 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Atrus was writing of using crystals to map gateway image technology to a viewer. The ink forges the link between the worlds, and the crystals simulated the ink. With the aid of a Book, it can be used to observe the world that the Book describes--and provoke subtle changes--even when the linking panel itself is too fuzzy to make anything out (like in Riven).

Edit: Atrus did succeed in this. A small image from the viewer: http://www.mystrealm.com/content/RealMyst/walk/riven.jpg (warning: contains secrets to realMYST puzzles. Don't memorize the crystal combinations, if you want to solve for yourself)

That would be interesting if there was a connection. Stones as an independent world-to-world medium is something that Yeesha, if anyone, could accomplish, I'd suppose. I don't think her father ever expanded upon it beyond just seeing, himself.


Last edited by Zen-17 on Sun Jan 18, 2004 2:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Xptql
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2004 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm, that is Very interesting! The use of a crystal as sort of a portal viewer for the age sounds incredibly useful. I wonder if he ever used it, maybe we could find something of the sort eventually. It'd be darn tough to find if he was the only one to ever do that though.

And I honestly have no idea if Yeesha could create a linking stone, perhaps only the bahro can do that. But Yeesha can put almost the exact functionality into one of her books.
I'm not saying that bahro stones are inherently better then paper and ink, I am just saying that the way they are each written (If I can use that term for the stones) is different, and the way the bahro do it seems superior. But as shown by Yeesha, that same technique could be ported over to the more traditional paper and pen.

Hmm, a new thought just came to me. Linking books always link to an age that is described somewhere else, with a descriptive book, right? Do the bahro stones also link to a described age? Or do they describe and link all in one, but simply describe super-efficiently. I mean, the D'ni had a set of words for concrete things(rocks, trees, cats), abstract things(emotions), and words to describe the things that were above both. They wrote descriptive books with many of those 3rd variety of words, but maybe the bahro have words even more specialized then that. The 3rd variety of words can encompass several of the other descriptive words in one (use one word to describe a mountain, instead of all the concrete words it would take to do so, so these bahro words would encompass several of the D'ni's words in one in much the same way. That could possibly explain how the Relto book can exist, because each book could use these Bahro words to describe the age, thus making for the extremely slim size.

Sorry that was so long, but those ideas literally came to me as I was typing, so I just let em run. What do people thing?
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Camann
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2004 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok,

1. The bahro or linking stones do appear to be more superior than linking books (aside from Yeesha's Wink ). As in the Teledahn stone that always links to the same cell and the Gahreesen stone that takes one to THEIR OWN neighborhood. The D'ni people had to use complex machines (a.k.a. the nexus) to do such things. Linking books ALWAYS linked to the place where they were originally written as long as the Descriptive Book for that place existed.

2. Do not cite Myst or RealMyst as examples of anything. Much artistic license was used on those games. Since this is all fiction then you must wonder why I talk about what is real in-game and fake in-game for games other than Uru. The simple truth is that Uru will follow the same lines of what is and isn't real. Anyway, the images in linking book images are static, prison books (in the way they were used in Myst and Riven) don't exist, and the Rime age was a gimick made up so people would buy RealMyst (I don't know for sure and don't have anything to back this one up). Go here to see what I mean... It's a long read though:www.dnidesk.com/rawa4.html

Also, my computer will not let me follow that link to make sure it is correct... I typed it from memory. It is correct if it is the ramblings thing from Richard Watson.
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Maharet
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2004 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Certainly Dr. Watson was puzzled by the different linking abilities:

Unbelievable

Dr. Watson - 11th of December, 2002

I spoke with one of the Uru explorers yesterday. I personally watched him use the mysterious Book. The Book did not remain behind. It indeed went with him. Frankly, I had really expected this to be some kind of hoax.

We have never found a D'ni Book that can do this. It obviously would have been useful enough that one would think that the D'ni would have figured out how to do it long ago if it were possible, but none of their Books can do this.

And that's not the only D'ni rule that this Book breaks. You are not going to believe this one, Vic. Wait. I'm getting ahead of myself.

Anyway, the explorer came back shortly after, and offered to let me see the Age it links to. I was hesitant, since we know so little about this Book, but I agreed.

The Book links to a small island, only it's not surrounded by water, it's surrounded by clouds. There is only one small building and a few small trees.

My host had another surprise for me. As I watched, he used his Book again and re-appeared at the link-in spot on the other side of the island. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it myself. He was able to link within an Age. No D'ni Books can do that either.

I am really not sure what to make of this Book. It does not conform to the D'ni rules we've learned over the years. Until we have a better understanding about how this Book works and why it can break some of the D'ni rules that we know, and have some kind of assurance that breaking these D'ni rules is safe, we should not encourage their use. We cannot stop the Uru explorers from using their Books, but we need to be clear that if they choose to continue using them, that they are using them at their own risk. I will not be using any of those Books again until I better understand them, and I insist the other DRC members refrain as well.

I think it's time that I talk with Prof. Zandi directly.

Dr. Watson http://r2pn.com/~john/zandifun_009.html
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NSymon
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2004 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Something I just noticed while I'm playing Riven. To get to the Rebels base after you've solved that puzzle, a book openes to reveal a large stone sat on the pages with an image of their home on it. I meant to take a picture when I saw it, but will do when I'm next in Riven.

Is it a Bahro stone?
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Kyven
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2004 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Farlesis wrote:
Something I just noticed while I'm playing Riven. To get to the Rebels base after you've solved that puzzle, a book openes to reveal a large stone sat on the pages with an image of their home on it. I meant to take a picture when I saw it, but will do when I'm next in Riven.

Is it a Bahro stone?


If I remember correctly it was a focusing stone, used because of the books poor quality.

Edit:

Catherine's Riven Journal wrote:
Back then, none of Gehn's Books worked. But instead of correcting the problem at its source, he blamed it on the "impure" wood of the Riven forest and proceeded to engineer a cumbersome mechanical remedy - a complex series of domes - to heal his Books' inherent flaws. One of the consequences of this crude solution, however, was that the domes demanded huge amounts of energy, and the related problems delayed his success for quite some time.


Catherine's Riven Journal wrote:
After linking to the Age which I've written, I only have to locate the book window substance and refine or adapt it. Laying this window over the gateway image should heal the books and make them work. This will allow me to use the second stolen Book, and return to Riven with more of the book-windows. We will then no longer have to rely on Gehn's clumsy domes.

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