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D'ni Religions, Factions, and Cults (Work In Progress)

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Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 233
Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 5:25 pm    Post subject: D'ni Religions, Factions, and Cults (Work In Progress) Reply with quote

This is just a quick list I made up, not nearly complete or accurate.

The Watcher-
Rumors said he had the ability to see beyond time, past, present, and future. Wrote Words, a 625-line volume book describing his visions of D'ni.

Denounced the teachings of the Great King, Tevahr, and their placing of taygahn as the means of Yahvo's salvation. Wanted to put an end to interaction with outsiders.

The Great King-
To know Yahvo better should be focused upon. Rumored to have special linking abilities. Wrote several books of prophecies. He sealed himself in the Temple of the Great King after taking responsibility for the Plague released in Pento, and was assumed dead. Although many believed he would return.

Followers of Yahvo-
Did not support outsider involvement, but thought it best to look to Yahvo for a peaceful solution.

Writers of Yahvo-
Believed it was their duty to write the Perfect Age.

The Tree-

Sacred Stone-

Denounced the words of the Great King.

Blood of Yahvo-

Light of D'ni-

Judges of Yahvo-
Believed they were to exercise Yahvo's judgment on those who could not truly understand him as they did.

One D'ni-
KI: 00332200
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Great Tree Member
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Joined: 18 Mar 2004
Posts: 218

PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

a while back, i had taught a D'ni Religion lecture on the Tapestry notes might help you:

here's my (very long!) chatlog...the class was, all in all, ~4 hours long:

(01/14 20:44:27) Chat.log started...
(01/14 20:44:40) Gadren: OK, since we're starting, could you move non-class chatting to PMs, please? I don't want to sound rude, but it'll help.
(01/14 20:44:50) Kierra_Windsong nods
(01/14 20:44:57) SuperGram nods her head
(01/14 20:45:00) Natika nods her head
(01/14 20:45:06) GazerWolf nods
(01/14 20:45:06) GallifreyLady nods
(01/14 20:45:09) Gadren: Ok, first things I'm sure you all know, this clas is on D'ni religion.
(01/14 20:45:13) Mari' nods her head
(01/14 20:45:46) Gadren: First of all, does anyone here know the name of the deity that the D'ni worshipped?
(01/14 20:45:55) inki waves
(01/14 20:45:55) Kierra_Windsong waves
(01/14 20:46:00) Thomahnee waves
(01/14 20:46:04) Gadren: inki?
(01/14 20:46:11) inki: Yahvo?
(01/14 20:46:18) Gadren: Correct!
(01/14 20:46:25) Gadren: 10 points... ;)
(01/14 20:46:28) Gadren: j/k
(01/14 20:46:29) inki: heh
(01/14 20:46:38) Gadren: Does anyone know another name ofr Yahvo?
(01/14 20:46:42) Thomahnee waves
(01/14 20:46:43) GallifreyLady waves
(01/14 20:46:44) Tyion waves
(01/14 20:46:44) Kierra_Windsong waves
(01/14 20:46:45) Gadren: Thom?
(01/14 20:46:52) Thomahnee: the Maker
(01/14 20:47:23) Gadren:, why is Yahvo known as the Maker? What about the D'ni's wonderous linking powers?
(01/14 20:47:35) GallifreyLady waves
(01/14 20:47:39) Gadren: Galli?
(01/14 20:48:02) GallifreyLady: while the D'ni could link to the worlds, Yahvo was the one who MADE the ages
(01/14 20:48:23) Gadren: Good job...that's an important distinction.
(01/14 20:48:48) Gadren: All the possible Ages, as I'm sure you know, are known as the Great Tree of Possibilities...
(01/14 20:49:06) Gadren: With an almost-infinite amount of branches and roots...
(01/14 20:49:45) Gadren: Something else that relates to Yahvo and the Ages has to do with the fact that Yavho "chooses not to see the paths of men, so they can choose."
(01/14 20:49:51) Gadren: Why is that?
(01/14 20:49:59) Gadren: And how does he not see the paths of men?
(01/14 20:50:14) Mari' waves
(01/14 20:50:18) Gadren: Anyone? ;)
(01/14 20:50:20) Gadren: Mari?
(01/14 20:50:32) Mari': Is it kinda like the garden of eden...
(01/14 20:50:35) Thomahnee: By not looking
(01/14 20:50:43) Kierra_Windsong waves
(01/14 20:50:49) Gadren: How so?
(01/14 20:50:50) Mari': They couldmake their own choices?
(01/14 20:50:53) Gadren: kierra?
(01/14 20:51:01) Kierra_Windsong: Free will
(01/14 20:51:13) Gadren: You're all right.
(01/14 20:51:26) Gadren: There's also a reason for it that relates to quantum mechanics...
(01/14 20:51:58) Gadren: According to quantum mechanics (at least my knowledge of it), observing anything closes some possibilities regarding it.
(01/14 20:52:17) Gadren: It's like the famous Schrodinger's Cat experiment...can anyone explain that?
(01/14 20:52:24) GazerWolf waves
(01/14 20:52:31) Gadren: Gazer?
(01/14 20:53:04) GazerWolf: You decide whether the cat is in the box when you look in the box. You have closed off one possibility
(01/14 20:53:57) Gadren: Right. And according to D'ni religion, Yahvo wanted to give free will to people, so he doesn't observe and close possibilities in our future.
(01/14 20:54:33) Gadren: However, Yahvo can direct people and command them to do things, but still give them choice in the matter...
(01/14 20:55:18) Gadren: Now that we've talked about who Yahvo is, does anyone have any questions regarding Yavho in particular?
(01/14 20:55:41) Natika waves
(01/14 20:55:42) inki waves
(01/14 20:55:44) Gadren: Natika?
(01/14 20:56:13) Natika: does Yahvo have a form?
(01/14 20:56:23) inki: that was my q too
(01/14 20:57:06) Gadren: Good question...
(01/14 20:57:29) Gadren: There are references to Yahvo as male, and having eyes, or blood, or other human-like qualities...
(01/14 20:57:47) Gadren: But it's not known if these are meant to be symbolic or not.
(01/14 20:58:04) SuperGram waves
(01/14 20:58:24) Gadren: SG?
(01/14 20:58:35) SuperGram: Where does Yahvo reside?
(01/14 20:59:08) Gadren: Well, I'll get into something relating to that in just a minute. ;)
(01/14 20:59:14) Gadren: Any other questions?
(01/14 20:59:19) SuperGram: k
(01/14 20:59:56) Gadren: OK, let's move on to the D'ni afterlife...
(01/14 21:00:06) Gadren: This section is relatively sparse, sadly...
(01/14 21:00:48) Gadren: When a D'ni died, their soul is brought to a "Judgement Age", where they are judged for their sins, apparently...
(01/14 21:01:18) Gadren: Then, the decision is made, whether the person's life was good or bad.
(01/14 21:01:40) inki waves
(01/14 21:01:41) Gadren: If the person was good, he is brought to the "Perfect Age"...the D'ni equivalent of heaven.
(01/14 21:01:43) Gadren: inki?
(01/14 21:02:03) inki: what is the requirement for "good" to the D,ni?
(01/14 21:02:23) Gadren: That concept changed over the ages...
(01/14 21:02:33) Gadren: Much as it has in Earth's history...
(01/14 21:02:57) Kierra_Windsong waves
(01/14 21:02:59) Gadren: To draw a parallel, before the Reformation, "works" were the main requirement...
(01/14 21:03:04) Natika stops glowing
(01/14 21:03:15) Gadren: But with the Protestant Reformation, "faith" was given more attention...
(01/14 21:03:18) Gadren: Kierra?
(01/14 21:03:39) Kierra_Windsong: Are there any other accounts of D'ni gods, or was it a single diety the D'ni worshiped?
(01/14 21:04:28) Gadren: Official D'ni religion has always been strictly monotheistic, but there are references to cults that did not focus on Yahvo...
(01/14 21:04:35) Gadren: What those cults focused on, we're not sure.
(01/14 21:05:03) Kierra_Windsong nods her head
(01/14 21:05:33) Gadren: Oh, another thing for inki's question: D'ni religion seemes to stress a personal relationship with Yahvo.
(01/14 21:05:51) Gadren: Now, more about the Afterlife...
(01/14 21:06:16) Gadren: If the judged person was bad, he is brought to "Jakooth's Age", the equivalent of hell.
(01/14 21:06:25) Gadren: Jakooth was the devil in D'ni religion.
(01/14 21:07:02) Gadren: Oh, another thing about inki's question!...
(01/14 21:07:32) Gadren: There were apparently laws against many of the Judeo-Christian-like transgressions, like murder and adultery.
(01/14 21:08:04) Gadren: But apparently the adultery one wasn't too well kept, considering the many affairs that D'ni kings had. ;)
(01/14 21:08:17) Twi-Lite starts to laugh
(01/14 21:08:22) inki: :p
(01/14 21:08:24) GazerWolf waves
(01/14 21:08:24) Thomahnee laughs
(01/14 21:08:27) Kierra_Windsong chuckles
(01/14 21:08:29) Gadren starts to laugh
(01/14 21:08:34) Gadren: Gazer?
(01/14 21:08:35) Mari': subject to status?
(01/14 21:08:47) Gadren: Maybe...
(01/14 21:08:51) Gadren: ;)
(01/14 21:09:03) GazerWolf: Is there any indication that that same inclination to adultry was prevalent in the general society?
(01/14 21:09:34) Gadren: Actually, there isn't, but most of the information we have about it comes from the Kings Notebooks, which obviously doesn't cover the regular people.
(01/14 21:09:55) inki: nod
(01/14 21:10:15) Gadren: Now, about te Perfect Age...we're not sure what it would be like...except Perfect, obviously.
(01/14 21:10:24) Kierra_Windsong snorts
(01/14 21:12:01) Gadren: Apparently these angels could take people up to heaven...
(01/14 21:12:18) Mari' waves
(01/14 21:12:28) Gadren: Mari?
(01/14 21:12:43) Mari': I missed something? What angels
(01/14 21:13:02) Gadren: Oh....whoops...I thought I had already mentioned them.
(01/14 21:13:06) Gadren: :D
(01/14 21:13:17) Mari': :)
(01/14 21:13:22) Gadren: Basically, all we know is that angels in some form existed in D'ni religion.
(01/14 21:13:37) Gadren: And I speculate that they are present in the Perfect Age somehow.
(01/14 21:14:04) Kierra_Windsong waves
(01/14 21:14:16) Gadren: There were also belief in healing powers and miracles...
(01/14 21:14:18) Gadren: Kierra?
(01/14 21:15:02) Kierra_Windsong: The D'ni Religion sounds an awful lot like Christianity...are there *any* differences?
(01/14 21:15:21) Gadren: You are right...there are quite a few similarities...
(01/14 21:15:28) SuperGram waves
(01/14 21:15:46) Gadren: But there's a few differences, which I'll cover during the lecture.
(01/14 21:15:48) Gadren: SG?
(01/14 21:16:00) SuperGram: Were there also dark angles that took people to Jakooth?
(01/14 21:16:31) Gadren: No idea...there's no mention of such...there's only one sentence that mentions angles at all...
(01/14 21:16:42) SuperGram nods her head
(01/14 21:16:44) Gadren: Only one sentence that mentions Jakooth as well...
(01/14 21:17:03) Gadren: But I imagine that Jakooth probably has someone on his side...
(01/14 21:17:29) Gadren: As I mentioned a bit earlier, there were references to healings and miracles...
(01/14 21:17:52) Gadren: The different cults/sects attributed them to Yavho, nature, or their cult's leaders...
(01/14 21:18:03) Kierra_Windsong waves
(01/14 21:18:09) Gadren: Kierra?
(01/14 21:18:19) Kierra_Windsong: Any reports of resurections?
(01/14 21:19:27) Gadren: Hmm...none come to mind at the moment...except there was once a son of a King who was in a long coma...and was healed (but that was never attributed to a miracle)
(01/14 21:19:38) Kierra_Windsong: Ah
(01/14 21:19:54) Gadren: I personally think that resurrection in some form may have been a part of D'ni religion.
(01/14 21:20:02) Kierra_Windsong: ?
(01/14 21:20:23) Gadren: Just my speculation that resurrection might be in there somewhere...
(01/14 21:20:49) Kierra_Windsong: That would tend to cause civil distress though
(01/14 21:21:20) Gadren: Hmmm...I guess no one really knows. Now, I had used the word "cult" earlier...and I hesitate to use it, because of the negative connotations in our vocabulary...
(01/14 21:21:38) Gadren: But I mean "cult" in the sense of another religion, like a sect.
(01/14 21:22:07) Gadren: Apparently there was an official Church...
(01/14 21:22:19) Gadren: That kept the original treachings of Ri'neref.
(01/14 21:22:44) Kierra_Windsong waves
(01/14 21:22:51) Gadren: Kierra?
(01/14 21:23:18) Kierra_Windsong: Has any evidence been found of athiests among the D'ni?
(01/14 21:24:02) Gadren: Well, I haven't seen anything of atheism, although I bet that it did occur somehow...
(01/14 21:24:12) Kierra_Windsong nods
(01/14 21:24:24) Gadren: In some cases, there is evidence that the belief was more cultural than actually spiritual.
(01/14 21:24:34) Kierra_Windsong: Ah
(01/14 21:24:40) inki waves
(01/14 21:25:09) Gadren: inki?
(01/14 21:25:11) inki: was the D'ni religion widespread through the Ages?
(01/14 21:25:30) Gadren: Do you mean as relating to natives of other Ages?
(01/14 21:25:42) inki: yes
(01/14 21:26:52) Gadren: Well, there's no evidence, but considering the D'ni's disregard for outsiders, I doubt that the religion would spread much, with the exception of ahrotahntee that became part of D'ni society, like some of the queens of D'ni.
(01/14 21:27:10) inki: nod
(01/14 21:27:24) Kierra_Windsong waves
(01/14 21:27:31) Gadren: OK, now here's another question: who here knows the meaning of the D'ni word "taygahn"?
(01/14 21:27:35) Gadren: Kierra?
(01/14 21:27:52) Kierra_Windsong: sorry, backtracking a little: who were the ahrotahntee?
(01/14 21:28:30) Gadren: Ah, sorry, I should have clarified that...the word "ahrotahntee" means "outsiders"...basically, any inhabitant of an Age that was not of D'ni blood.
(01/14 21:29:00) Kierra_Windsong: I wasn't aware there were others
(01/14 21:29:26) Kierra_Windsong: The D'ni seemed to...take outcasting outsiders
(01/14 21:29:55) Gadren: Well, they certainly "used" the outsiders for their own purposes, at least.
(01/14 21:30:18) Gadren: There are many references to mining Ages and other Ages where machinery was run by outisders.
(01/14 21:30:26) Kierra_Windsong: Ah
(01/14 21:30:34) Gadren: Now, I'm not implying that it was slavery, necessarily...
(01/14 21:30:51) Gadren: Just that they were used as servants or maybe even paid workers...
(01/14 21:30:52) Gadren shrugs
(01/14 21:31:08) Gadren: Anyway, does that answer your question?
(01/14 21:31:11) Gadren: :D
(01/14 21:31:20) inki waves
(01/14 21:31:21) Kierra_Windsong: Yes, thank you
(01/14 21:31:25) Gadren: OK...
(01/14 21:31:27) Gadren: inki?
(01/14 21:31:33) inki: are there any records of sacred texts?
(01/14 21:31:40) inki: or just the Kings journals?
(01/14 21:32:04) Gadren: Well, the Kings Notebooks were DRC translations, so those wouldn't be ancient...
(01/14 21:32:09) Gadren: As for sacred texts...
(01/14 21:32:19) Gadren: Apparently there was some firm of scripture...
(01/14 21:32:49) Gadren: And there were numerous references to "books of prophecy", which I'll cover later.
(01/14 21:32:57) inki: k
(01/14 21:32:57) Kierra_Windsong nods
(01/14 21:32:59) inki: thanks
(01/14 21:33:02) Gadren: Any other questions before I move on?
(01/14 21:33:29) Gadren: Ok, then...who here knows the meaning of the D'ni word "taygahn"?
(01/14 21:33:38) GallifreyLady waves
(01/14 21:33:38) Kierra_Windsong shakes her head
(01/14 21:34:15) Gadren: Galli?
(01/14 21:34:31) GallifreyLady: "to love with the mind"?
(01/14 21:34:43) Gadren: Precisely!
(01/14 21:34:59) Gadren: That's an important distinction..."with the mind"...
(01/14 21:35:16) Gadren: It implies a personal relationship with and knowledge of another person...
(01/14 21:35:22) Gadren: In this case, Yahvo.
(01/14 21:35:35) Kierra_Windsong waves
(01/14 21:35:37) Gadren: The word was also used to describe marriage. ;)
(01/14 21:36:19) Gadren: Kierra?
(01/14 21:36:28) Kierra_Windsong: Is it known whether or not "to love with the mind" was valued higher over "love with the heart"?
(01/14 21:37:14) Gadren: Well, we don't know of the other distinctions of "love" in D'ni...
(01/14 21:37:38) Gadren: But considering the high importance it had in D'ni religion, I'd say it was highly valued.
(01/14 21:37:53) Kierra_Windsong: interesting. thank you
(01/14 21:38:01) Gadren: The concept of taygahn had grown more important over the years...
(01/14 21:38:41) Gadren: Some believed that only taygahn with Yahvo was needed to go to the Perfect Age, and that following Yahvo's commands was not needed.
(01/14 21:39:32) inki waves
(01/14 21:39:35) Gadren: inki?
(01/14 21:39:46) inki: would that be one of the "sects" you spoke of?
(01/14 21:40:08) Gadren: Yes...I'll be covering the sects more in detail later on.
(01/14 21:40:12) inki: ok
(01/14 21:40:17) Mari' waves
(01/14 21:40:24) Gadren: Mari?
(01/14 21:40:51) Mari': but if you had truly loved Yavo with your mind.. wouldn't you want to follow her commands?
(01/14 21:41:13) Mari': or his? ;)
(01/14 21:42:34) Gadren: Well, I see it as sort of similar to the "grace vs. works" argument of some Christian denominations.
(01/14 21:42:53) Gadren: I don't fully understand it myself...but let's not get into that. ;)
(01/14 21:43:01) Mari': k
(01/14 21:43:44) Gadren: Here's an interesting tidbit of info -- D'ni children (in other words, D'ni people under 25 years old) were not considered accountable for their actions
(01/14 21:44:26) Kierra_Windsong waves
(01/14 21:44:54) SuperGram waves
(01/14 21:46:15) Kierra_Windsong: not even murder?
(01/14 21:47:24) SuperGram: What is the age difference between D'ni and us? Example 25 to 7

(01/14 21:53:57) Gadren: Now, as I was saying...
(01/14 21:53:59) Kierra_Windsong nods
(01/14 21:54:17) Gadren: d'ni chlidren under 25 were not held accountable by Yahvo for what they did...
(01/14 21:54:29) Kierra_Windsong waves
(01/14 21:54:32) Gadren: Kierra?
(01/14 21:54:39) Kierra_Windsong: Sorry, have to ask: not even for murder?
(01/14 21:54:45) SuperGram waves
(01/14 21:55:37) Gadren: Well, I'm sure that the law would prosecute them in some manner, but religion wouldn't. Apparently it was felt that children that age could not understand Yahvo's commands.
(01/14 21:55:48) Gadren: My religion has something similar...except it's for age 8.
(01/14 21:55:49) Kierra_Windsong: Ah
(01/14 21:55:57) Gadren: SG?
(01/14 21:56:11) SuperGram: What is the difference in t D'ni age as to ours. For example 25 to 7
(01/14 21:56:22) SuperGram: I think you already answered
(01/14 21:56:59) Gadren: Well, OK, then... :P
(01/14 21:57:20) Kierra_Windsong starts to laugh
(01/14 21:57:22) Gadren: If there's no more questions, let's more on to Rites and Rituals...
(01/14 21:57:27) SuperGram: Keep a civil tongue in your mouth Prof
(01/14 21:57:53) To Gadren: sorry, i sent you a picture of yoru class
(01/14 21:57:58) Gadren: Nice pics, Twi...see me after class... ;)
(01/14 21:58:01) From TheThunder: wish i had your angle
(01/14 21:58:03) Gadren starts to laugh
(01/14 21:58:06) inki: lol
(01/14 21:58:08) Kierra_Windsong roars with laughter
(01/14 21:58:18) Twi-Lite: I sent 2 pictures to everyone
(01/14 21:58:23) Kierra_Windsong: is that like passing notes in class?
(01/14 21:58:27) inki: lol
(01/14 21:58:30) Gadren: Anyway...back to rituals...i don't want to keep you for 4 hours... lol
(01/14 21:58:36) Kierra_Windsong chuckles
(01/14 21:58:36) Twi-Lite: sorry
(01/14 21:58:48) Gadren: 'tis OK...
(01/14 21:58:50) Gadren: ;)
(01/14 21:58:51) Gadren: j/k
(01/14 21:59:23) Gadren: Let's see...we know that on Garternay, there were at least 3 Feasts of the Maker, held on March 27, June 21, and November 11...
(01/14 21:59:35) Gadren: Those are the earth date equivalents...
(01/14 21:59:53) Gadren: We don't know about those feasts, since there's very little info on Gerternay.
(01/14 22:00:16) Gadren: However, I suppose they deserve mention...
(01/14 22:00:39) Gadren: Another big itual was marriage...
(01/14 22:01:18) Gadren: Most of the info about marriage is too lengtthly to mention here...if you want more info, go to the Tokotah rooftop and read the journal there.
(01/14 22:01:53) Gadren: Suffice to say that it was an important part of a relationship with taught and revealed the necessary requirements for such a relationship.
(01/14 22:02:35) Gadren: so, if you want more info on marriage, check out that Tokotah
(01/14 22:02:39) Gadren: On to funerals!
(01/14 22:02:57) Gadren: Not much is known about them...
(01/14 22:03:21) Gadren: Except that the bodies of the dead were Linked to Burial Ages, maintained by a Minor Guild.
(01/14 22:03:49) Gadren: And a prayer was often said during this time.
(01/14 22:04:27) Gadren: One example was "May Yahvo receive your soul/May we meet again in the next Age."
(01/14 22:05:22) SuperGram: I missed a few things there.
(01/14 22:06:01) SuperGram: We jumped from the Ritual of Marrage to the Bodies of the dead
(01/14 22:06:14) Kierra_Windsong: lol
(01/14 22:06:22) inki: lol
(01/14 22:08:04) Gadren: Anyway, SG...I didn't talk much about marriage...
(01/14 22:08:17) SuperGram: Yes you did
(01/14 22:08:24) inki: twi, nod
(01/14 22:08:28) Gadren: All I said was that you should read the Marriage notebook on the Tokotah Rooftop to learn more.
(01/14 22:08:42) SuperGram: Importan relationship with Yahvo
(01/14 22:08:53) SuperGram: ^important
(01/14 22:08:55) Gadren: Yeah...but that was also mentioned.
(01/14 22:09:00) Gadren: In the notebook...
(01/14 22:09:44) SuperGram: Then the Bodies of the dead was the next that I got
(01/14 22:10:12) Gadren: Yeah...let's see here...the dead bodies were linked to burial Ages, maintained by a Minor Guild...
(01/14 22:10:25) SuperGram: k
(01/14 22:10:28) Gadren: And a prayer was said during this.
(01/14 22:10:42) Gadren: And...that's about it for rites and rituals! :P
(01/14 22:10:50) Gadren: Any questions on this section?
(01/14 22:11:29) Gadren: OK, thne let's more on to Priestesses and Prophetesses!
(01/14 22:11:34) Gadren: move*
(01/14 22:12:11) Gadren: Women were belived to be more in tune with Yahvo's commands than men, making them ideal candidates for receiving prophecy and guidance
(01/14 22:12:58) Gadren: For this reason, prophetesses were often advisors to the only one occasion have I even seen a king take a male prophet to guide him.
(01/14 22:13:36) Gadren: This tradition started with the greedy King Shomat, who was felt he needed guidance to prevent him from wrecking things during his reign... ;)
(01/14 22:13:54) Kierra_Windsong chuckles
(01/14 22:14:00) Gadren starts to laugh
(01/14 22:14:36) Gadren: The prophetess and the king were supposed to remain objective with one another and the people, so relationships between them were frowned upon...
(01/14 22:14:37) From TheThunder: i know, i could make a textbook lol
(01/14 22:15:07) Gadren: But - that didn't stop King Mararon, who allegedly had several affairs with priestessses...;)
(01/14 22:15:15) Kierra_Windsong laughs
(01/14 22:15:41) Gadren: Yeah...
(01/14 22:15:49) Gadren: Something else about women in D'ni...
(01/14 22:16:25) Gadren: Pregnant women were belived to be much more insightful...
(01/14 22:16:48) Gadren: During pregnancy, women wold use that insight to gain revelation from Yahvo...
(01/14 22:17:29) Gadren: This meditation was expected to primarily guide the woman to her child's future and its purpose and was taken rather seriously.
(01/14 22:18:24) Gadren: It was also believed by the D'ni people and several female officials that a woman's highest duty was the guidance of her children.
(01/14 22:19:18) Gadren: One final piece of information about religious orders and such - one fan reported that RAWA once mentioned a Minor Guild of Clerics, but this is UNCONFIRMED.
(01/14 22:19:29) Gadren: Any questions on priestesses?
(01/14 22:19:52) Gadren: ...
(01/14 22:19:53) Gadren: ;)
(01/14 22:20:02) Kierra_Windsong waves
(01/14 22:20:06) Gadren: Kierra?
(01/14 22:20:53) Kierra_Windsong: What was their social status in society? I'd imagine pretty high if they adivsed the Kings
(01/14 22:21:35) Gadren: I think they ranked very highly...there's a notebook on Tokotah Rooftop about Class Structure that might have more info.
(01/14 22:22:12) Kierra_Windsong: Is there any info on how Priestesses were chosen or identified?
(01/14 22:22:52) Gadren: Well, there seems to be references that the kings somtimes chose them themselves.
(01/14 22:23:26) SuperGram waves
(01/14 22:23:30) Gadren: SG?
(01/14 22:23:46) SuperGram: How were the Priestesses chosen by Yahvo?
(01/14 22:24:16) Gadren: We honestly don't know...there's been no information given as to such things.
(01/14 22:24:26) SuperGram: k
(01/14 22:24:50) Gadren: Well, if there's no more questions...let's move on to Different Sects through D'ni History.
(01/14 22:25:08) Gadren: First, there was the Writers of Yahvo.
(01/14 22:25:25) Gadren: This group eventually became one of the 3 largest sects in D'ni.
(01/14 22:25:41) Gadren: They belived their duty was to write a Link to the Perfect Age.
(01/14 22:25:57) Gadren: Sounds a bit like the Tower of Babel to me... ;)
(01/14 22:26:06) Kierra_Windsong chuckles
(01/14 22:26:08) Gadren: Trying to build their way to heaven and all...
(01/14 22:26:30) inki: or the egyptians
(01/14 22:26:35) Gadren: There was another sect, called the Judges of Yahvo.
(01/14 22:26:38) Gadren: yeah.
(01/14 22:26:50) Gadren: The Judges were a more militant sect.
(01/14 22:27:23) Gadren: They belived that they were to exercise Yahvo's judgement on those who could not truly understand as they did.
(01/14 22:27:47) Gadren: They began to be influential when a Writer, named Airis, left the Gulid of Writers to work with the Judges in 1303 DE.
(01/14 22:28:21) Gadren: The Judges began writing illegal Ages in an attempt to create a race they could control and force to go to war for them...
(01/14 22:28:26) Gadren: Sound familiar? ;)
(01/14 22:29:17) Gadren: Anyway, the Pento Age was written as a result, and the Pento natives, with the Judges, took control of D'ni for a time, killing the King Koreen as they attacked the palace.
(01/14 22:29:59) Gadren: The king's wife fled the city, and ended up giving birth to her son Ahlsendar, right when she was under the Arch of Kings.
(01/14 22:30:16) Gadren: Ahlsendar was the Great King.
(01/14 22:30:39) Natika: Neat!
(01/14 22:31:06) Gadren: Yeah...To sum up his reign, Ahlsendar ended up defeating the Pento by creating a biological plague to use against them.
(01/14 22:31:34) Kierra_Windsong raises her eyebrpws
(01/14 22:31:40) Kierra_Windsong: ^eyebrows
(01/14 22:31:51) Gadren: However, he eventually regretted it, and had himself sealed inside the Temple of the Great King, along with all the Books infected by the plague.
(01/14 22:32:07) Gadren: And the Temple of the Great King becaame the Tomb of the Great King.
(01/14 22:32:23) Kierra_Windsong: "what goes around comes around"
(01/14 22:32:27) Mari' waves
(01/14 22:32:30) Gadren: yes, in a manner of speaking... ;)
(01/14 22:32:32) Gadren: Mari?
(01/14 22:32:47) Mari': Where would this temple/tomb be located?
(01/14 22:32:57) GallifreyLady: at least he had the courage to admit his mistake
(01/14 22:33:19) Gadren: Apparently, it was underneath the Guild Hall...this is the same Tomb that Atrus' group found in the BoD.
(01/14 22:33:34) Mari': ahhh'
(01/14 22:33:35) Kierra_Windsong: Interesting
(01/14 22:33:40) Gadren: True, Galli...there was a lot of iscussion about the Great King after his death...more on that later.
(01/14 22:34:01) Gadren: Now, continuing this story a bit, there was a sect called The Tree.
(01/14 22:34:19) Gadren: It belived that the Ancient Books had "special powers"...what that means, we don't know.
(01/14 22:35:06) Gadren: The wife of King Solath, Jolatha, during the reign of her son, Me'erta was a member of it, and essentailly controlled her son's throne.
(01/14 22:35:15) GallifreyLady waves
(01/14 22:35:26) GallifreyLady: wiat sorry
(01/14 22:35:28) Gadren: She had as a goal to discredit Ri'neref's church and encourage the cults to grow.
(01/14 22:35:30) GallifreyLady: never mind
(01/14 22:35:39) Gadren: Uh, ok. ;)
(01/14 22:36:01) Gadren: Jolatha was against the Great King, and viewed him as a foolish fraud.
(01/14 22:36:10) Gadren: She wanted to discredit him...
(01/14 22:36:31) Gadren: You see, some people believed that the Great King would return and bring greatness to D'ni.
(01/14 22:36:37) Gadren: And Jolatha rejected that.
(01/14 22:37:00) Gadren: To prove that the Great King was dead, she broke open the seal on the Tomb of the Great King.
(01/14 22:37:04) Gadren: BAD IDEA!
(01/14 22:37:24) Gadren: She died from an unknown illness 2 days later.
(01/14 22:37:28) Kierra_Windsong grimaces
(01/14 22:37:44) Gadren: And the breakout of the plague happens all over D'ni.
(01/14 22:38:01) Gadren: It was several hundred years until a cure was finally found...
(01/14 22:38:02) GazerWolf winces
(01/14 22:38:19) Gadren: People didn't know of Jolatha's act, so they blamed the Great King for the plague...
(01/14 22:38:39) Gadren: But eventually, the Tomb was resealed, this time stronger...
(01/14 22:39:00) Kierra_Windsong waves
(01/14 22:39:04) Gadren: Kierra?
(01/14 22:39:39) Kierra_Windsong: since we know that Atrus opened the seal years later, I assume that means they completely cured the plague?
(01/14 22:40:24) Gadren: Well, the cure prevented infection and cured infection, but it didn't do anything to the plague that didn't infect people yet, I think...
(01/14 22:40:44) Gadren: I tihnk that the plague died out, with no one else to infect.
(01/14 22:40:52) Kierra_Windsong: Hm
(01/14 22:40:54) Gadren: It's a similar thing with the plague that actually destroyed D'ni.
(01/14 22:41:09) Gadren: Both Atrus and the DRC didn't have much of a problem with it.
(01/14 22:41:27) Twi-Lite waves
(01/14 22:41:28) Kierra_Windsong nods
01/14 22:41:41) Gadren: twi?
(01/14 22:41:59) Twi-Lite: was it Atrus or Aitrus?
(01/14 22:42:12) Gadren: Atrus...Aitrus was long dead by the time of BoD.
(01/14 22:42:25) Twi-Lite: ok, i get them confulsed sometimes
(01/14 22:42:46) Gadren: Yah...Aitrus DID have quite a problem with a plague...
(01/14 22:43:00) Gadren: Anyway, we're digressing a bit...on to the next sect!
(01/14 22:43:09) Gadren: It's called "Blood of Yahvo".
(01/14 22:43:18) Gadren: Cheerful name, huh?
(01/14 22:43:36) GazerWolf giggles
(01/14 22:43:43) Kierra_Windsong chuckles
(01/14 22:43:45) Gadren: They were strongly against any involvement with outsiders...
(01/14 22:43:51) Mari' smiles
(01/14 22:46:59) Kierra_Windsong: i think we're in for another unofficial intermission...
(01/14 22:52:58) Gadren: Anyway...where were we? ;)
(01/14 23:00:22) TheThunder: WB gad!
(01/14 23:00:30) SuperGram: WB Prof
(01/14 23:00:32) Twi-Lite: Welcome back GAdren
(01/14 23:00:33) Gadren: sorry about all that...
(01/14 23:00:47) Natika: Can you hear us now?
(01/14 23:01:40) Gadren: Le'ts see...Blood of Yahvo...
(01/14 23:01:50) Natika: Yes!
(01/14 23:01:52) Gadren: It was anti-outisder...
(01/14 23:01:57) SuperGram: Could we pick this up on another day
(01/14 23:01:58) Gadren: and highly militant!
(01/14 23:02:07) SuperGram: Some people had to leave
(01/14 23:02:09) Gadren: think that would work better?
(01/14 23:02:25) Kierra_Windsong nods
(01/14 23:02:25) SuperGram: The class is very interesting
(01/14 23:02:25) Gadren: Ah, ok...
(01/14 23:02:25) Kierra_Windsong: Yeah, i need to go too :(
(01/14 23:02:42) Kierra_Windsong: Took much longer than planned, LOL
(01/14 23:02:47) Gadren: I know what you mean. ;) Yah...
(01/14 23:02:49) GazerWolf: I should go to. I'm loving the class but it's getting late.
(01/14 23:02:53) Gadren: Wasn't meaning for it...
(01/14 23:02:59) SuperGram: Well we had a problem to begin with
(01/14 23:03:04) Kierra_Windsong: S' happens :)
(01/14 23:03:04) Mari': Yes, when it takes 45 minutes to begin
(01/14 23:03:07) SuperGram: Not your fault
(01/14 23:03:11) Natika: We got a late start
(01/14 23:03:14) Gadren: lol...true
(01/14 23:03:22) Mari': Not anyone's falt... just happened
(01/14 23:03:28) SuperGram: Should just link here next time.
(01/14 23:03:38) Mari': but I want to hear the rest
(01/14 23:03:48) Twi-Lite: Well, this was a first and there are always issues the first time
(01/14 23:03:50) Kierra_Windsong: *chuckles* and recommend everyone gets there at least a half hour early
(01/14 23:03:55) Gadren: Well, when would work for all of you?
(01/14 23:03:58) Gadren: lol
(01/14 23:03:59) Natika: I can came most anytime, if you let me know
(01/14 23:04:09) GazerWolf: I'm fairly open on time.
(01/14 23:04:15) Mari': can we get a copy of your notes
(01/14 23:04:16) Gadren: What about tomorrow?
(01/14 23:04:16) Twi-Lite: Is there a lot more to cover?
(01/14 23:04:27) Gadren: Well, about 2-3 more pages...
(01/14 23:04:27) SuperGram: Tomorrow good
(01/14 23:04:31) Natika: What do you think Gadren, do you have another hours worth?
(01/14 23:04:34) Twi-Lite: I did make a chatlog...
(01/14 23:04:39) Gadren: L:et me think here...
(01/14 23:04:47) Twi-Lite: I can pm it to everyone here after I clean it up
(01/14 23:06:06) Twi-Lite: I will only send it to this class' participants
(01/14 23:06:07) Mari': how about you publish it after all of the classes?
(01/14 23:06:26) Natika: We could wait until after the next class
(01/14 23:06:30) Mari': Or pm it to all members
(01/14 23:06:34) Kierra_Windsong shrugs
(01/14 23:08:11) Gadren: actually, most of the rest of the info isn't as important, like prophecies, religious buildings, and people
(01/14 23:08:14) SuperGram cheers
(01/14 23:08:15) GallifreyLady: and thanks for hosting, thunder
(01/14 23:08:17) Gadren: those can be condensed
(01/14 23:08:18) Kierra_Windsong cheers
(01/14 23:08:22) GazerWolf thanks you very much!
(01/14 23:08:25) Gadren thanks you
(01/14 23:08:28) TheThunder: you did a great job, Gadren!
(01/14 23:08:29) Natika cheers
(01/14 23:08:30) Kierra_Windsong cheers
(01/14 23:08:31) Twi-Lite: Yes thunder, thank you
(01/14 23:08:32) Tyion claps his hands
(01/14 23:08:32) Mari' thanks you very much!
(01/14 23:08:35) TheThunder cheers
(01/14 23:08:36) Twi-Lite claps her hands
(01/14 23:08:36) Kierra_Windsong claps her hands
(01/14 23:08:36) SuperGram: Time tomorrow?
(01/14 23:08:37) GallifreyLady claps her hands

~~~~DAY 2~~~~

(01/16 20:03:19) Chat.log started...
(01/16 20:04:22) Gadren: Well, welcome to the second evening of the D'ni Religion Class!
(01/16 20:04:36) GallifreyLady: woo!
(01/16 20:04:38) Gadren: You've all been great, and I hope you've enjoyed it so far...
(01/16 20:05:50) Gadren: Anyway...we left off at D'ni Sects.
(01/16 20:06:06) Gadren: Just to see if anyone remembered anything from last night... ;)
(01/16 20:06:16) SuperGram waves
(01/16 20:06:18) Gadren: Can anyone tell me something about the "Writers of Yahvo"?
(01/16 20:06:20) Gadren: SG?
(01/16 20:06:24) GazerWolf panics
(01/16 20:06:29) Gadren: :D
(01/16 20:06:31) SuperGram: The Blood of Yahvo sect
(01/16 20:07:04) Gadren: Yeah, that's where we left off...but I thought I'd give a little intro before starting off in the middle of the unit.
(01/16 20:07:13) SuperGram waves
(01/16 20:07:13) Gadren: So, anyone?
(01/16 20:07:15) Gadren: SG?
(01/16 20:07:26) SuperGram: 3 largest sects in D'ni
(01/16 20:07:32) SuperGram: Judges
(01/16 20:07:37) Gadren: Correct! *gives SG an A++*
(01/16 20:07:40) SuperGram: The Tree
(01/16 20:07:46) Gadren: Right.
(01/16 20:07:59) Gadren: Anyway, I'll move on to Blood of Yahvo.
(01/16 20:08:00) SuperGram: and The Blood of Yahvo
(01/16 20:08:27) Gadren: The Blood of Yahvo was violent and not above using questionable means to gain power.
(01/16 20:09:00) Gadren: They were strongly against outsider contact, and used subterfuge to create similar sentiments among the people.
(01/16 20:09:35) Gadren: It has been thought that the Blood ordered the people of the Yimas Age to kidnap King Ishek's wife.
(01/16 20:10:01) Gadren: And assassinate King Loshemanesh, who had created laws to prevent such actions.
(01/16 20:10:20) Natika waves
(01/16 20:10:28) Gadren: Natika?
(01/16 20:10:36) Natika: Sounds like the mafia!
(01/16 20:11:05) Gadren: Perhaps...I had always thought of terrorists, but any sort of criminal activity like this works too.
(01/16 20:11:27) Gadren: The Blood Also kidnapped and threatened to kill King Yableshan's son.
(01/16 20:11:49) Gadren: The Blood said that if the king released one of their leaders, named Goshen, they would return the king's son.
(01/16 20:12:06) TheThunder waves
(01/16 20:12:12) Gadren: TT?
(01/16 20:12:26) TheThunder: it reminds me of some of the Radical groups in the middle-east
(01/16 20:12:32) Gadren nods his head
(01/16 20:13:00) Gadren: Anyway, Yableshan agreed...and his son was returned...
(01/16 20:13:05) Gadren: Technically, at least.
(01/16 20:13:20) Gadren: A few days later, the body of the king's son was found on the palace steps.
(01/16 20:13:26) Gadren: Dead, as you can imagine.
(01/16 20:13:45) Natika: Oh no!
(01/16 20:14:02) Gadren: Yeah, it's sad, Natika...
(01/16 20:14:23) Gadren: But it's odd to think of the D'ni culture as filled with many of the flaws that plague our own history.
(01/16 20:14:36) TheThunder waves
(01/16 20:14:41) Gadren: TT?
(01/16 20:14:59) TheThunder: it's understandable, all cultures go through certian hardships
(01/16 20:15:33) Gadren: Right. I hope we have a D'ni Politics class soon...that would be interesting.
(01/16 20:15:44) SuperGram nods her head
(01/16 20:15:45) TheThunder notes that down
(01/16 20:16:10) Gadren: You know, the kidnapping of King Ishek's wife, and the assassination of Losemanesh might not have been done by the Blood.
(01/16 20:16:28) Gadren: Another sect under suspicion was known as "Light of D'ni".
(01/16 20:17:28) Gadren: Here's another example of violent D'ni sects: a group known as "One D'ni" that was responsible for an explosion on the Age of Meanas that killed 400 outsiders and 78 D'ni.
(01/16 20:18:20) Gadren: Of course, not all the sects were violent, obviously. There's one sect that has no reports of such actions, known as "Sacred Stone".
(01/16 20:18:34) Gadren: Nothing's known about this group, except it didn't focus on Yahvo.
(01/16 20:18:46) Gadren: Perhaps they worshipped the stone of D'ni or something.
(01/16 20:18:48) Gadren shrugs
(01/16 20:19:18) Gadren: The point of this section is to realize that much of D'ni's early history was filled with religious division.
(01/16 20:19:22) Mari' waves
(01/16 20:19:30) Gadren: Mari?
(01/16 20:19:32) Mari': What about the Barrow stones?
(01/16 20:20:13) Gadren: Hmm..hadn't thought about that. However, I don't know if the Bahro Stones existed at that time...but it could be possible.
(01/16 20:20:22) Gadren: Good question.
(01/16 20:20:28) Mari' nods
(01/16 20:20:55) Gadren: The year 2500 DE marked the height of the "religious confusion", with over 2000 registered sects.
(01/16 20:21:33) TheThunder waves
(01/16 20:21:35) Gadren: However, things began to get more unified by the time of Kerath. Few followed the original teachings of Ri'neref, but there weren't as many divisiosn.
(01/16 20:21:40) Gadren: TT?
(01/16 20:21:51) TheThunder: you just answered my question.
(01/16 20:22:03) Gadren: Oh, good. :D
(01/16 20:22:40) Gadren: It appears that the general philospohy of D'ni regarding outsiders moved towards being against any outsider involvement.
(01/16 20:23:28) Gadren: Conflicts with them such as the Pento War and the Mee-Dis War (in the 7000s) led to a greater following of isolationist teachings.
(01/16 20:24:23) Gadren: I feel that by the time of the Fall, religion had taken a back seat in peoples' lives, and had been relegated to ceremonial and ritual status.
(01/16 20:25:01) Gadren: My reasons for this is that organized religion is not mentioned at all in the Book of Ti'ana, and there are only few references to any religion at all.
(01/16 20:25:32) Gadren: This concludes the section on D'ni Sects. Any questions on this section?
(01/16 20:25:46) Twi-Lite shakes her head
(01/16 20:25:52) Gadren: :D
(01/16 20:26:03) Natika shakes her head
(01/16 20:26:09) Gadren: OK, the next topic is Religious Buildings.
(01/16 20:26:40) Gadren: Apparently the vast majority of religious temples and such were built on the line of the Great Zero...
(01/16 20:27:10) Gadren: Exactly what significance the GZ line has for religion is unknown, and it's altogethr possible that it's merely cultural, not religious in origin.
(01/16 20:27:47) Gadren: The first temple bulit was Ri'neref's Temple, known only as the "Temple of Yahvo".
(01/16 20:28:14) Gadren: Begun in the first 50 years since the D'ni's arrival in D'ni, it was the official temple of the Church.
(01/16 20:28:31) TheThunder waves
(01/16 20:28:34) Gadren: TT?
(01/16 20:28:49) TheThunder: is there any refrence to an official church on Garternay?
(01/16 20:29:06) Gadren: To tell the truth, there's very little information on Garternay at all.
(01/16 20:29:19) Gadren: So we don't know anything about their culture.
(01/16 20:29:23) TheThunder: Oh
(01/16 20:29:52) Gadren: I think that as the D'ni's "new beginning" that they were trying to achieve, they turned their backs on their dying world.
(01/16 20:31:33) Gadren: The Temple of Yavho became empty during the times of the religious cultic popularity during King Me'erta's reign.
(01/16 20:32:05) Gadren: He, in a move that was the first of its kind, sanctioned and helped construct non-official temples.
(01/16 20:32:28) Gadren: They were known as the Temple of the Tree, Temple of Water, and Temple of the Sacred Stone.
(01/16 20:33:15) Natika nods her head
(01/16 20:33:20) Gadren: There's also the Temple of the Great King, whice, as I discussed earlier, became the Tomb of the Great King.
(01/16 20:33:38) Gadren: This temple was apparently built to certain dimensions listed in prophecies.
(01/16 20:33:59) Gadren: Ja'kreen wanted it to fit the prophecies, but the proportions ended up rather odd for a temple.
(01/16 20:34:33) Gadren: It was only after the Great King was sealed in the Temple with the books infected by his plague that the dimensiosn were finally understood, for the temple was built to house many books.
(01/16 20:35:12) Gadren: Speaking of odd designs, the "egg-rooms" in the neighborhoods are religious buildings too.
(01/16 20:35:50) Gadren: The "egg" is actually supposed to represent a seed of the Great Tree of Possibilities, and is an object for people to focus on as they worshipped and prayed in privacy.
(01/16 20:36:30) Gadren: This concludes the rather short section on Religious buildings. Any questions? ;)
(01/16 20:36:49) Natika waves
(01/16 20:36:52) Gadren: Natika?
(01/16 20:37:35) Natika: When you say books, do mean like the ones we see on our shelves?
(01/16 20:38:00) Gadren: I mean Linking Books and Descriptive yes, I suppose.
(01/16 20:38:22) Natika: Were there other books?
(01/16 20:38:50) Gadren: Actually, it doesn't say...the source says "Books" with a capital B, so I'd assume Linking Books.
(01/16 20:38:55) TheThunder waves
(01/16 20:38:56) Gadren: But there might be other books...
(01/16 20:38:57) Gadren: TT?
(01/16 20:39:14) TheThunder: i thought i read that there were books of commentary in the temple, too
(01/16 20:39:38) Gadren: Oh, are you referring to the Book of D'ni?
(01/16 20:39:48) Gadren: With the Terahnee Book?
(01/16 20:40:02) TheThunder: No, a book of commentary, it's a book with notes, taken on the age, after one links
(01/16 20:40:21) TheThunder: Like the ones fro haven and spire, in revelation
(01/16 20:41:13) Gadren: That's an interesting point for speculation.
(01/16 20:41:22) Gadren: But sadly, our sources our limited.
(01/16 20:41:38) TheThunder nods
(01/16 20:41:45) Gadren: Actually, there is one more D'ni building I forgot to mention.
(01/16 20:41:54) Gadren: The Arch of Kings, or Kerath's Arch.
(01/16 20:42:29) Gadren: Some prophecies written in Garternay refer to the Great King coming from under the Arch.
(01/16 20:42:57) Gadren: There was an Arch of Kings on Garternay, so the D'ni had to rebuild one on D'ni.
(01/16 20:43:37) Gadren: The Arch of Kings was completed in the year 625...a very interesting number.
(01/16 20:43:50) Gadren: It was considered to be the number of the Maker.
(01/16 20:43:51) Mari' nods
(01/16 20:44:08) Gadren: You certainly get that impression when you read the Watcher's words... ;)
(01/16 20:44:27) Gadren: Now I'm done with D'ni Religious buildings... :P
(01/16 20:44:32) Gadren: Any other questions?
(01/16 20:44:49) Natika shakes her head
(01/16 20:45:14) Gadren: Well, I'll move onto anotehr, and more interesting section...important people in D'ni religion.
(01/16 20:45:34) Gadren: Obviously, there's the Great King, which we've talked about already.
(01/16 20:46:01) Gadren: Many prophets afterward were divided on the issue on how great the Great King was... ;)
(01/16 20:46:52) Gadren: For example, there was a person named Nemiya, that wrote a book with his name as te title, that preached against the Great King, calling him a fraud and liar.
(01/16 20:47:28) Gadren: The king at the time, Solath, had been a close friend of the Great King, and so wasn't too happy with Nemiya.
(01/16 20:48:00) Gadren: A few years after the publishing of the Book of Nemiya, its writer was assassinated (or taken away by angels, his followers said).
(01/16 20:48:36) Gadren: About 25 years after Nemiya's disappearance, there was growing sentiment that Nemiya's book carried some truth.
(01/16 20:49:12) Gadren: There was another religious leader, named Tevahr, that was a supported of the Great King.
(01/16 20:49:28) Gadren: He denounced all the sects and their lack of faith in Yahvo's commands.
(01/16 20:49:47) Gadren: The King at the time, Rakeri, didn't like Tevahr, and threatened to iprison him.
(01/16 20:50:10) Gadren: Eventually, the King and Tevahr ended up getting into a religious and philosophical debate.
(01/16 20:50:27) Gadren: The King apparentl lost the debate badly, but he did not become outraged.
(01/16 20:51:02) Gadren: Even though the King could easily have had Tevahr killed, he pondered what he had heard, not speaking to anyone for 2 days.
(01/16 20:51:19) Gadren: He eventually believed Tevahr's words, and made him his prophet.
(01/16 20:52:01) Gadren: There was also a prophet named Gish, that lived several hundred years later.
(01/16 20:52:18) Gadren: He praised the words of Yahvo, but that was all he praised.
(01/16 20:52:45) Gadren: He said the Great King was a farce, and denounced the people for believing that "taygahn" alone would save them.
(01/16 20:53:01) Gadren: He said that folloing Yahvo's commands was also required.
(01/16 20:53:26) Gadren: It was Gish that began the true push into the isolationist teachings with his book "Yahvo Alone".
(01/16 20:54:12) Gadren: The D'ni relyimah ended up assassinating Gish at te command of the current king, drawinf great criticism and making Gish a martyr.
(01/16 20:54:50) Gadren: Do you all know about the relyimah in D'ni?
(01/16 20:55:01) GallifreyLady waves
(01/16 20:55:06) Gadren: Galli?
(01/16 20:55:29) GallifreyLady: they were the "unseen" and were kind of like the CIA
(01/16 20:56:10) Gadren: Correct - they were quite different from the slave class that the Terahnee relyimah were.
(01/16 20:57:07) Gadren: Now, I'm going to move a bit farther back chronologically, in order to cover some other people, and their prophecies.
(01/16 20:57:22) Gadren: Prophecy was an important part of D'ni religion from the very beginning.
(01/16 20:57:41) Gadren: We have some prophecies from Garternay, by a man named Oorpah.
(01/16 20:58:34) Gadren: In his books called "Regeltavok Oorpah", he wrote words of wisdom, and some prophecies that related to the Great King.
(01/16 20:59:06) Gadren: If you want to read some of his words, then check out that journal in your Relto.
(01/16 20:59:13) Gadren: The writings there are by Oorpah.
(01/16 21:00:07) Gadren: Any questions on him, before I move forward about 4000 years?
(01/16 21:00:16) Gadren: ;)
(01/16 21:00:41) Gadren: (Good...I've put them to sleep.(
(01/16 21:00:44) Gadren: :D
(01/16 21:00:47) GallifreyLady: lol
(01/16 21:00:50) Natika: nope!
(01/16 21:00:58) Gadren starts to laugh
(01/16 21:01:04) SuperGram: :)
(01/16 21:01:05) TheThunder: we're still here, this is very is very interesting
(01/16 21:01:09) Twi-Lite: Nice try!
(01/16 21:01:10) Gadren: Really?
(01/16 21:01:14) GallifreyLady: yes!
(01/16 21:01:17) SuperGram: ?yes
(01/16 21:01:21) SuperGram nods her head
(01/16 21:01:24) Twi-Lite nods her head
(01/16 21:01:25) Gadren: Wonderful...
(01/16 21:01:33) Twi-Lite: we're sponges
(01/16 21:01:40) SuperGram: Yep
(01/16 21:01:42) Gadren: Well, let's move on to someone you're probably a bit familiar with: the Watcher.
(01/16 21:01:57) Gadren: Can anyone tell me something about him?
(01/16 21:02:16) TheThunder waves
(01/16 21:02:23) Gadren: TT?
(01/16 21:02:32) TheThunder: wasn't he the one born while linking?
(01/16 21:03:06) Gadren: Right! Legend has it thathe was born "between the Link" by his mother who was fleeing an outsider uprising on one of the ages.
(01/16 21:03:31) Gadren: Rumour had it that he could see beyond time, past, present, and future.
(01/16 21:04:16) Gadren: He ended up writing "Words", a collection of his prophecies about te estruction and its rebuilding, among other things.
(01/16 21:04:25) Gadren: He spoke of the Grower that would restore D'ni.
(01/16 21:05:18) Gadren: Now, this is an important piece of information regarding prophecies: people throughout history always feel that prophecies are applicable to their current time.
(01/16 21:05:28) Gadren: That's why there's so many interpretations.
(01/16 21:05:45) TheThunder waves
(01/16 21:05:49) Gadren: TT?
(01/16 21:06:22) TheThunder: similar to how people interpreted Nostradamus' prophecies after 9/11?
(01/16 21:06:31) Gadren: Right!
(01/16 21:07:19) Gadren: Here's a D'ni example...there was a famous man known as Faresh. One night his daughter woke up screaming and jumped to her death.
(01/16 21:08:01) Gadren: There was great commotion in D'ni, and so people thought that the line in "Words" saying "the city will be filled with screams" applied here.
(01/16 21:08:23) Gadren: Since the majority of us know more about the Fall of D'ni, we think that such passages relate to the Fall of D'ni.
(01/16 21:08:33) Gadren: So you see that there's multiple interpretations.
(01/16 21:09:12) Gadren: Here's an idea - I'm going to give you a prophecy, and I'd like to hear what your thoughts are on what it could mean, OK?
(01/16 21:09:56) Natika: sure
(01/16 21:09:59) GallifreyLady: ok
(01/16 21:10:04) SuperGram: k
(01/16 21:10:10) Gadren: "A burrowing worm blinks in the sunlight and pulls his eyes down over his eyes. Earth's mouth steams. Deep voices grumble. Time draws a jagged line over the sand in which the woman waits."
(01/16 21:10:24) Gadren: What do you think it means?
(01/16 21:10:35) TheThunder waves
(01/16 21:10:37) Gadren: TT?
(01/16 21:10:40) SuperGram waves
(01/16 21:10:52) TheThunder: does it refer to Ti'ana somehow? and the cleft?
(01/16 21:11:02) Gadren: Could be, could be...
(01/16 21:11:04) Gadren: SG?
(01/16 21:11:14) SuperGram: Nevermind
(01/16 21:11:22) Gadren: Ah...same answer?
(01/16 21:11:24) SuperGram: Was thinking of an earthquake
(01/16 21:11:27) From TheThunder: I can't see her on my list, but i see her
(01/16 21:11:32) SuperGram: shrug
(01/16 21:11:32) Gadren: Interesting.
(01/16 21:11:38) Natika waves
(01/16 21:11:47) Gadren: Natika?
(01/16 21:12:42) Natika: I would say closing your eyes to the dangers of nature, ie. a volcano, earthquake etc.
(01/16 21:13:04) Gadren: This is're all seeing different things.
(01/16 21:13:11) GallifreyLady waves
(01/16 21:13:15) Gadren: Galli?
(01/16 21:13:51) GallifreyLady: the man in the first line could be Gehn, who would need his D'ni goggles to see, and him and Tiana are waiting at the cleft for aitrus to return
(01/16 21:14:33) Gadren: Ooh...I like that one...I had never before considered it. I always think of young Atrus and his generator experiment in the BoA.
(01/16 21:14:46) Natika waves
(01/16 21:14:50) Gadren: Natika?
(01/16 21:15:25) Natika: In RL I would see it as pulling the covers over my head and not facing reality
(01/16 21:15:55) Gadren: You see? That's the beauty of prophecies, especially these D'ni ones...there's so many possible meanings.
(01/16 21:16:12) Gadren: Here's another one. I have a feeling that most of you will think the same thing for this one.
(01/16 21:16:40) Gadren: "Rivers of fire. Even the rocks burn. An island rises from the sea. Dark magic in an errant phrase. The people bow to the lord of error."
(01/16 21:17:39) Gadren: What do you think it means?
(01/16 21:17:58) SuperGram waves
(01/16 21:18:01) Gadren: SG?
(01/16 21:18:22) SuperGram: Sounds like the creation of a land mass. Perhaps the world
(01/16 21:18:30) Twi-Lite waves
(01/16 21:18:33) Gadren: Twi?
(01/16 21:18:47) Twi-Lite: Souinds like the descriptions of "hell" to me
(01/16 21:18:59) TheThunder waves
(01/16 21:19:02) Gadren: TT?
(01/16 21:19:20) TheThunder: i've heard this before, where did it come from? That may help.
(01/16 21:19:42) Gadren: Both the prophecies I mentioned were in between sections in the Book of D'ni.
(01/16 21:19:56) GallifreyLady waves
(01/16 21:20:14) Gadren: Galli?
(01/16 21:20:37) GallifreyLady: maybe Gehn's mis-Writing the Age of Riven, or even his Age 37
(01/16 21:22:24) TheThunder waves
(01/16 21:31:56) Gadren: Well, what I was GOING to say is that the last prophecy reminds me of Gehn, like...who was it that said it reminded you of Gehn?
(01/16 21:32:07) GallifreyLady: me
(01/16 21:32:12) Gadren: Ah, that's right!
(01/16 21:32:21) TheThunder waves
(01/16 21:32:26) Gadren: TT?
(01/16 21:33:11) TheThunder: i was thinking that the last propecy would relate to the war on terahnee, since it was in the book of d'ni, and all the other prohecies from the book related to events in the book
(01/16 21:33:46) Gadren: That's interesting - man, I always think of the obvious ones...!
(01/16 21:34:02) TheThunder: This one wasn't so obvious
(01/16 21:34:06) Gadren: Never any of these really deep meanings.
(01/16 21:34:17) Gadren: Hmm...well, here's an interesting one:
(01/16 21:35:13) Gadren: "Inner and outer meet in a face on a page. Deep lives and ancient eyes. Mirrored. The door is open. The stranger comes. Black flies the cloud behind the newcomer."
(01/16 21:35:57) Gadren: Any ideas?
(01/16 21:36:06) GallifreyLady waves
(01/16 21:36:10) Gadren: Galli?
(01/16 21:36:28) Gadren: (oh, doo you mind if i call you Galli, just for ease of use?)
(01/16 21:36:50) GallifreyLady: could be Atrus and his D'ni group linking to Terahnee and unintentioanlly bringing plague
(01/16 21:37:06) TheThunder waves
(01/16 21:37:10) GallifreyLady: and yes u can call me Galli :)
(01/16 21:37:13) Gadren: TT?
(01/16 21:37:18) Gadren: Thanks, Galli... :P
(01/16 21:37:34) TheThunder: well, they didnt bring plague, but they did bring a plague of turmoil
(01/16 21:37:53) Gadren: Techincally, didn't they bring a plague? The stomach virus?
(01/16 21:38:01) TheThunder: Oh yeah!
(01/16 21:38:05) Gadren: :D
(01/16 21:38:06) TheThunder: Forgot
(01/16 21:38:37) Gadren: I like this idea...I had never really thought of it...the use of "inner" for underground D'ni, and "outer" for aboveground terahnee is good too.
(01/16 21:39:14) Gadren: Well, that conludes your final!
(01/16 21:39:23) Twi-Lite: You are kidding! Its over?
(01/16 21:39:28) TheThunder: Really?
(01/16 21:39:30) Twi-Lite: We want more!
(01/16 21:39:33) Gadren: Yep! That was your "test"...
(01/16 21:39:35) Gadren: O_O
(01/16 21:39:36) Natika: Really!
(01/16 21:39:39) SuperGram: Yes...
(01/16 21:39:39) TheThunder: Can we get more prophecies?
(01/16 21:39:43) GallifreyLady: cool test :)
(01/16 21:39:46) Gadren: *fends off mob of D'ni-history-addicted people*
(01/16 21:39:50) TheThunder: Great test!
(01/16 21:40:30) Gadren: Well, the test wasn't really a test, just me giving some prophecies, and others telling me what they meant to themselves.
(01/16 21:40:40) SuperGram: Next Class??????
(01/16 21:40:42) TheThunder claps his hands
(01/16 21:40:42) Gadren: If you want to see more prophecies, check out
(01/16 21:40:57) Gadren: There's a page there listing all the prophecies.
(01/16 21:41:09) Gadren: is where I got all my info for this class, so check it out.
(01/16 21:41:13) TheThunder: Neat
(01/16 21:41:24) Twi-Lite: Gadren, we would like to thank you for doing this class! You have spent a lot of time getting it together. It is very Professional!
(01/16 21:41:29) Gadren: @ class is next friday for the next group of people.
(01/16 21:41:37) Gadren: Thanks, Twi! I'm glad you all liked it!
(01/16 21:41:40) Gadren bows
(01/16 21:41:40) SuperGram: After that .....:)
(01/16 21:41:41) Natika: Yes, and vote for the Golden Ki photo contest, while your there
(01/16 21:41:47) SuperGram: Next topic
(01/16 21:41:59) TheThunder: the history classes are a continuing thing, there will be more classes covering different topics in the future
(01/16 21:42:00) Gadren: I don't know if the next topic has been decided...
(01/16 21:42:07) Gadren: TT's in charge of it all...
(01/16 21:42:09) SuperGram: JK
(01/16 21:42:22) Gadren: I think he was the one who started this whole class idea...thanks, TT!
(01/16 21:42:31) GallifreyLady: yay TT!
(01/16 21:42:39) Twi-Lite cheers for TheThunder
(01/16 21:42:41) Natika cheers
(01/16 21:42:42) TheThunder: i thought it would be fun, and it worked out very well!
(01/16 21:42:43) GazerWolf cheers TT
(01/16 21:42:43) TheThunder: Thanks!
(01/16 21:42:45) SuperGram cheers
(01/16 21:42:49) Gadren: I want to thakn you all for being the guinea pigs and figuring out how the classes can be tweaked...
(01/16 21:43:25) Natika: Yes you gave us about 4 hours worth
(01/16 21:43:38) Gadren: Say, uh...did you like the idae of the prophecy quiz (for those of you that took it? :P )?
(01/16 21:43:45) GallifreyLady: yes :)
(01/16 21:43:49) Twi-Lite: yes
(01/16 21:43:52) SuperGram: yes

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those prophecies are actually a lot more specific that you seem to indicate in those logs... for instance, isn't it clear that the burrowing worm and eyes over eyes is Gehn when he comes to get Atrus, rising from D'ni and donning his D'ni lenses at the sunlight, and the time-drawn jagged line is the fissure and it's Catherine who's waiting for Atrus?
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