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PotS and UU Python code interesting bits...

 
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Durin Mephit
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 5:36 pm    Post subject: PotS and UU Python code interesting bits... Reply with quote

In my "copious spare time" I've taken to poking through the python code portions of Path of the Shell and Until Uru. No code below - just some interesting revelations.

Per psnlBookshelf.py:
From left to right, the positions of books in the Relto Bookshelf are:
Cleft, Garrison, Teledahn, Kadish, Gira, Garden, city, Neighborhood, Nexus, RestorationGuild, Ercana, Ahnonay, AhnySphere01, Myst, and ... Negilahn. 15 books total.

Per xLinkingBookDefs.py:
Among the Link Destinations defined are:
Negilahn and Toldelmer

I think we can guess from the above that Toldelmer was going to be book 16.

I wonder how the game works in places where links seem to be missing (other city links, and the spyroom, are absent from the aforementioned "Link Destinations"). Apparently, only the things that *need* to be there are there, and some other magic handles the exceptions. The Great Zero, Ferry terminal, Library courtyard, spyroom, etc. appear in a later list of "Linking Pages".

References to Myst Library can be found in the python files for Until Uru... I don't believe that was added in the UU patch, so it seems a sure thing that Cyan intended to take us there, even before Live died and the story changed to expansion packs.

Comments in the code are rather bemusing sometimes, such as: "You obviously cheated, this link is not possible."

There are some curious bugfixes here and there that have been introduced since ABM / UU. One such fix: While running would normally cause your fireflies to flee, you could still *attract* fireflies while running. That was fixed in either To D'ni or PotS. Smile In UU, you can still charge into a pile of fireflies and have some "stick", provided you stop before they fly away. Another change: The management system for the buckets in Teledahn was improved in To D'ni or PotS, with debugging code to track which bucket is which, and an off-by-one bug was fixed. They futzed with the power tower too.

It appears from a preliminary code inspection that the Wall code was changed (but not ripped out) in either To D'ni or PotS. Perhaps it can be accessed in single player in one of the expansions. I remembered trying to get into it in To D'ni and failing to do so. Anyone have any better luck?

The user-side code for Heek is still present in PotS even though the table is broken. Code for most of the chatting functions is still present too, except in xKI.py which is the one place Cyan really ripped a lot of code out.

The "egg room" private rooms create regions that effectively use "private chat channels" with the KI.

Some version of the game "Concentration" (a memory matching game) is coded up in one of the python files. I'm rather curious if that is unfinished or hiding somewhere in the game as an easter egg.
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Professor Askew
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool stuff, Marten. It must be very nice to look into the guts of a game and know what you're looking at. I hope to be in the know very soon myself. I start my first programming course, Code Basics, this Thursday night. I am really looking forward to it. Then I, too, will nose my way around the Uru skeleton.
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Durin Mephit
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2004 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you can get past the process of decompiling the code, it isn't really that complicated. I found a nice tool to provide highlighted differences between two versions of a file, and have been digging through the code.

The stuff that checks to see if you can pick up fireflies originally checked to see if a value had exceeded "19". The bugfix is almost plain english - it checks to see if the value is over 19 (as before) *or* if "running" is "true". Smile
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Mystlander
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marten, Perhaps you and Ashtar should work together as administrators for The Great Tree shard... that is, if you can find the time! Wink
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Zardoz
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 9:35 am    Post subject: Re: PotS and UU Python code interesting bits... Reply with quote

Marten wrote:
There are some curious bugfixes here and there that have been introduced since ABM / UU. One such fix: While running would normally cause your fireflies to flee, you could still *attract* fireflies while running. That was fixed in either To D'ni or PotS. Smile In UU, you can still charge into a pile of fireflies and have some "stick", provided you stop before they fly away.

Sad The ability to get bugs to stick while running was NOT a bug - I know, because I was partly responsible for getting that written into the python code. Way back when Cyan was running their internal (Choru) beta test at the same time Ubi was running their closed (Ubiru) beta test, a new build introduced the Gira/Kemo puzzles. In the previous build, we had been able to wander around the Gira dark caves and open doors or trigger journey cloths, merely by poking around until we found a hot spot. But in this build, they had installed the light trigger (you could only do those things if the light was turned on, and you could only do that if you had the bugs). The Choru testers got the new build a short while before the Ubiru testers, as I recall, and we Choru-ites were soon complaining about the "bug" of not being able to turn the lights on in Gira, and oh, weren't those bugs in Kemo interesting? Someone from Cyan posted in our Choru forum, So, are you hot shot Choru testers going to let the Ubiru testers figure out the Kemo bug puzzle first? Kemo bug puzzle? What Kemo bug puzzle? we replied, but it didn't take long for one of us in fact to figure it out, including the "rules" about not running, not jumping, and not getting wet.

At which point I complained loud and long that the puzzle was unfair to those of us who liked to run everywhere. I argued that by not being able to catch bugs while running, the game never gave the player the chance to learn the rules. In some later build, Cyan added that feature. Other testers may have given the same feedback, of course, so I'm not sure how much if any credit I should take. Indeed, if Cyan had always listened to me while I was a Choru tester, Kadish would be WAY different . . . Wink
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Zardoz: Kadish would be WAY different . . .


Tell us a story, Zardoz!! Please? Smile
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Mystlander
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Always a pleasure to read Zardoz's pearls of wisdom & insights in any Myst / Uru forum, but it is a genuine honor to read them here at The Great Tree!
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NSymon
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I totally agree and second that Mystlander. Fascinating and interesting to hear all the stuff about the closed beta's.
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Zardoz
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2004 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the Kadish experience didn't produce as clean of a story as the previous one, but I don't want to disappoint my fans. Wink

First, a tiny bit of insider background. For about a year after the Choru test started in the spring of 2002, all we got was buggy content and network nightmares - ah, the life of an alpha/beta tester. Starting in the summer of 2003, though, puzzles finally started to appear. I can't remember which Age in Prime was first (although the Kemo/Gira ones were near the end because they were Prime-only add-ons), but the puzzles immediately roiled what had been a very cozy atmosphere. First (to wander abit from my Kadish story), there was the bucket puzzle in Teledahn. When it first appeared, it required two people (don't remember whether it showed up this way in the closed Ubi beta). What had been a nice polite group of Choru testers instantly was transformed into a raucous riot, as testers took sides on the question of -multi-player-only solutions, some hating them and others loving them.

The debate over TD paled, however, in comparison to the reception the Kadish puzzles got. Now, unlike some of the other Ages, we got the Kadish puzzles as soon as we got access to Kadish itself. This was great -- except there were still plenty of bugs in Kadish, so finding bugs and trying to solve puzzles at the same time was frustrating. But to get back to my off hand remark, whereas the reaction to the TD bucket puzzle had been mixed, the reaction to the Kadish puzzles (mainly #2 - #4) was more uniform: we HATED them! Well, that's a little strong, but I guarantee you that perhaps ONE Choru tester actually solved the puzzles on his or her own, and maybe none. By "solve" the puzzle, I mean get past the barrier AND understand what they had done to do so. Many people solved Kadish #2, for example, but had no idea what they had done after getting the correct light pattern. Others (myself in this case) solved #3 only after somehow getting the hexagons to glow - but having no idea how that had happened. In each case, people would post the solution only to discover later that there were 3 or 4 extraneous steps. We had great theories, for example, about hopping over all the lit paths in puzzle #2 before arriving at the center circle. Attempts to repeat these solutions inevitably failed - or else a different solution would be discovered. And don't even get me STARTED on Puzzle #4.

What we all agreed should be changed -- and was, but only slightly -- was the clue artwork in the Gallery. #3 especially drove us nuts, as we simply could not see a connection between the artwork and the solution. Josh Staub worked on it a little bit after we screamed bloody murder, but I don't know anyone who went, Oh yeah, now I see.

So how would Kadish have been different if I had had my way? Well, here's what I posted in our Choru forum:
Quote:
I'm looking for something a little more straightforward - say, a big billboard with a flashing neon sign saying PULL THE THIRD LEVER FOUR TIMES, DUMMY!!!

Very Happy
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Durin Mephit
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On Eder Kemo... well, what can I say? Someone apparently decided to change the behavior so you cannot pick up the bugs while running, or, a code change was lost between Live and Expansion Pack development. If you run all the time, yeah, you will probably never learn that you CAN pick up bugs at all. A better solution might've been to have introduced some additional area where you HAD to walk, and HAD to move through fireflies, but also HAD to lose them to get in and out of the area. That would have trained players about the fireflies' use but made them still use the intended set in Kemo for the intended purpose. *Shrug*

My perception of Kadish, in retrospect, is that the hexagon light puzzle was the worst part and that it should have been... well, different.

But let me go back to the start...

The first puzzle - I was able to understand pretty easily, but I had difficulty seeing how the pieces in the puzzle looked much of anything like the artwork. In fact, at least one piece of artwork truly is wrong, and does not show one of the metal rods that ought to be present to help solve the puzzle.

The second puzzle should have been straightforward except that I kept trying to walk on the area that was lit, rather than the area that wasn't lit. There is a hint in the gallery art of where one should "enter the floor" but I didn't notice it - a little too subtle for me. Also, the blue dots around the left side of the artwork didn't stand out and I didn't even notice them until pointed to them by a walkthrough.

Third puzzle... arrgh. What really gets me is that one can either "walk the trees" after activating the floor the first time, *or* just wait a while for the floor to "charge". And I've still yet to see a really good explanation for it; maztec's still left something to be desired.

Fourth puzzle (clock) and Fifth puzzle (panel), I had *no problem* with either puzzle, having at this point looked at a walkthrough and been given a very general hint about the puzzles: "Look for what's missing." They fit the "what's missing?" question very well.

It would have been nice if the puzzles had all stayed true to that theme so a simple clue (What's missing?) could be given and all the puzzles would make sense.

Still, I understand the "logic" of Kadish; it was a vault age and the gallery was Kadish's way of reminding himself how to get to his treasures. The age and clues didn't have to make sense to anyone but Kadish. Unfortunately, going into the age, the player knows nothing about that, either!
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Zardoz
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 9:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marten - sorry for hijacking your thread! Actually, a thread about all the neat stuff in the python code would be good, as there are lots of places where small tweaks produce interesting results.

And about Kadish - it's my theory that in fact NO ONE ever figured out Kadish puzzle #3 without help. In the Choru test, I can identify a single instance where someone claimed that someone else discovered the solution, but my own opinion is that the someone else was someone from Cyan! When Kadish and other Ages were opened, Cyantists would often tag along with the AEs and "observe", trying not to help us solve the puzzle but I think our frustration with #3 may have gotten to a few of them.

And once we all knew the solution in Choru, my theory is that some of us "infected" the Ubi beta test with the solution. Which was then transmitted to walkthroughs, etc. I know the folks at Cyan vigorously defend the Kadish Gallery's clues, and in all but one case I look back after solving the puzzle and say, Yes, I can see that now in the artwork, but that one case is #3.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2004 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since we've included this sub-topic in the thread......

Had I known Live would be canceled, I would never have attempted and completed Prime on my own. It was something to do while I waited for my invite. I, too, found Kadish very difficult and I did have to refer to some out of game hints and spoilers. But, I worked Prime anyway knowing that there would be future Ages to solve in groups. Had I known that this wasn't going to be the case, I would have held off on Prime to work on it with others in Uru Live. To me, this was the point!

I remember working on the other three Myst games with a buddy on the other end of the phone! I always wanted to be able to work on Myst puzzles with someone actually in the game!. Uru Live was finally going to be it. Alas, it wasn't meant to be. Which is probably one of the main reasons I got so heavily involved in the Great Tree storyline. There was nothing else to do because I had completed Prime. Drat the luck.

I can only imagine what fun it would have been to tackle Kadish Tolesa with a group of people...all seeing it for the first time. Having the ability to really noodle it out with a varied group of people, all with different takes on the clues, being able to communicate with Buddys who are actually looking at the clues in the Gallery while you stare at the puzzle in front of you. I only hope this still comes to be. I envy the few newbies who have actually dived into Until Uru without completing Prime first. Hmmmm.....I may post a want ad for this: "Wanted: a newbie player in search of a veteran guide". Could be fun.
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Eleri
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Professor Askew wrote:
I envy the few newbies who have actually dived into Until Uru without completing Prime first. Hmmmm.....I may post a want ad for this: "Wanted: a newbie player in search of a veteran guide". Could be fun.


Me me me!

I haven't ever actually played Prime on my own, I had Blade run my avvie through most of it. Partially because I hadn't yet gotten the hang of not getting motion sick, and partially because many of the puzzles were really hard to wrap my brain around.

So I have yet to take my UU self through prime Smile
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Professor Askew
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool. Maybe we'll make that one of our homework assignments, Eleri! Wink
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