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Information from Students of D'ni Knowledge, May 27 2007
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Durin Mephit
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 12:46 am    Post subject: Information from Students of D'ni Knowledge, May 27 2007 Reply with quote

(05/28 02:10:27) DocOlanA: Okay. Well, I think enough people are here to begin.
(05/28 02:10:37) kyashii burps
(05/28 02:10:55) From JWPlatt in JWPlatt's Relto: How many there now?
(05/28 02:11:09) imara whispers "say excuse me"
(05/28 02:11:14) crazycatlady licks chocolate of her fingers and says "to heek with my diet"
(05/28 02:11:22) DocOlanA: Now, as some of you may have heard, I have some new translations. HOWEVER, before I give them to you, I must make some disclaimers. Please pay attention, as I refuse to hold myself responsible for any mishaps that occur because you didn't listen.
(05/28 02:11:29) vid: Doc, you'll be releasing a transcript of this, right?
(05/28 02:11:32) DocOlanA: Oh yes.
(05/28 02:11:47) kyashii puts away food
(05/28 02:12:20) DocOlanA: First. The prime condition of receiving this information (and being able to make it public,) is that I reveal nothing about my source. Nothing. I will neither confirm nor deny any questions you have about the source, so please don't ask.
(05/28 02:12:36) kyashii understands
(05/28 02:12:41) crazycatlady agrees
(05/28 02:12:42) imara nods her head
(05/28 02:12:42) kiki: k
(05/28 02:12:48) DocOlanA: I am not doing this because I want to withold information. Believe me, I'd much rather level with you. But the options given to me were either to conceal my source, or not get the info in the first place.
(05/28 02:12:55) ireenquench grumbles but goes with it
(05/28 02:12:57) Xena nods her head
(05/28 02:13:00) vid: Doc, so it's true that it's actually... DR EVIL!?!?!
(05/28 02:13:02) kyashii nods his head
(05/28 02:13:02) DocOlanA: Now that leads into #2.
(05/28 02:13:07) Thend starts to laugh
(05/28 02:13:29) DocOlanA: . . .
(05/28 02:13:30) kyashii giggles
(05/28 02:13:37) DocOlanA does the pinky finger.
(05/28 02:13:41) Serephina laughs
(05/28 02:13:43) DocOlanA: Mr. Vid, welcome to my underground Bevin.
(05/28 02:13:44) Thend roars with laughter
(05/28 02:13:48) To JWPlatt: 24 by my count
(05/28 02:13:49) vid cheers
(05/28 02:13:50) kyashii roars with laughter
(05/28 02:13:50) imara laughs
(05/28 02:13:52) vid claps his hands
(05/28 02:13:55) Serephina laughs
(05/28 02:13:57) crazycatlady laughs
(05/28 02:13:58) Xena laughs
(05/28 02:14:05) DocOlanA: But seriously. This leads me to #2.
(05/28 02:14:07) Nadnerb roars with laughter
(05/28 02:14:15) DocOlanA: I am NOT, I repeat, NOT 100% certain as to the authenticity of my source.
(05/28 02:14:17) Nvr2old3 listening
(05/28 02:14:23) kyashii is listening
(05/28 02:14:34) Error: Don't know how to '/listen'
(05/28 02:14:37) Thanakar: allthat matters is your trust your source
(05/28 02:14:38) imara is concerned
(05/28 02:14:41) crazycatlady will make sure to take it with a grain of salt then
(05/28 02:14:51) DocOlanA: I have done everything in my power to confirm the identity of my source, and I, personally, believe that the source is both accurate and authentic (otherwise I wouldn't be telling you this.)
(05/28 02:15:16) crazycatlady throws the salt away
(05/28 02:15:45) DocOlanA: However, that is my belief. I can't hold that up in a court of law, and it is just possible (though I would say very improbably, as I'm ALMOST certain,) that I am wrong.
(05/28 02:16:04) kyashii says "huh?"
(05/28 02:16:16) Xena laughs
(05/28 02:16:17) Dave1971: yep, I got into yet another bevin where a juicy piece of information was spoken and I missed it. *sigh*
(05/28 02:16:30) DocOlanA: I am very concerned about the reputation of the SoDK. To be perfectly honest, I don't like revealing this info to you without being 100% certain as to its authenticity.
(05/28 02:16:39) Marten reads that as "I'm ALMOST certain that I am wrong."
(05/28 02:16:42) DocOlanA: However, given the nature of this material, I felt it would be wrong to keep it to myself.
(05/28 02:16:43) Atheni33 waves to Pituka
(05/28 02:16:45) imara wonders if DocOlanA is a really a lawyer
(05/28 02:16:49) DocOlanA: Heh. No. I'm ALMOST certain that I'm not wrong.
(05/28 02:16:52) kyashii roars with laughter
(05/28 02:17:01) Pituka waves at my hommie Atheni
(05/28 02:17:04) DocOlanA: But that's not the same as completely certain.
(05/28 02:17:06) kyashii is so confused now
(05/28 02:17:12) Xena: well so far you haven't revealed
(05/28 02:17:23) kyashii has a brain cramp
(05/28 02:17:24) DocOlanA: So . . . I'm going to give you these translations. You guys will have to decide for yourself whether it's authentic, or whether someone's trying to pull one over on the ole Doc.
(05/28 02:17:31) crazycatlady just nods and will figure out who is wrong or right later...
(05/28 02:17:33) Marten: Maybe he's translating a court record...
(05/28 02:17:35) DocOlanA: There were two groups of translations given to me.
(05/28 02:17:51) Xena: who's taking notes?
(05/28 02:18:12) DocOlanA: The first one was a series of dreams, recorded by Turlikut.
(05/28 02:18:16) DocOlanA: I have this information about her:
(05/28 02:18:39) DocOlanA: Turlikut (947-959) was the orphaned daughter of a Surveyer Journeyman; nothing is known about her mother.
(05/28 02:18:59) DocOlanA: From the day of her father's death when she was seven until her own death, Turlikut would wake every morning and record her dreams.
(05/28 02:19:23) DocOlanA: At first circulated as a poignant look at beauty wrought from tragedy, it soon came to be seen as a book of prophesies, when one by one they came true exactly as Turlikut had written them.
(05/28 02:19:38) DocOlanA: Turlikut's Dreams fell out of favor during the reign of Solath, as much of her prophesies dealt with Ahlsendar.
(05/28 02:20:07) DocOlanA: ( For those of you who aren't obsessive D'ni historians, Ahlsendar was also known as "The Great King" in popular D'ni history. There is some controversy as to whether he actually was the prophesied "Great King.")
(05/28 02:20:50) DocOlanA: Now, I have here several prophecies from Turlikut, taken from those few of her prophecies that have not come true (that we know of. Yet.)
(05/28 02:21:17) DocOlanA: In these prophecies are a few notes from the translator. These may or may not be accurate, but I'm including them for completeness.
(05/28 02:21:52) DocOlanA: #93: The great one laughs beneath his crown but does not smile. The rebuilders toil but have nothing to show. The gathered listen but do not hear. As above, so below.
(05/28 02:22:07) Thanakar: cla
(05/28 02:22:19) DocOlanA: #402b: Mother in the sun[Earth?] lays dying while the life in her womb[D'ni?] struggles to be reborn. Only one will survive.
(05/28 02:22:55) DocOlanA: #721: The Bringer of Death[Ahlsendar?] returns at last and is met by the Bringer of Life[Yeesha?]. The war rages with no end in sight. As above, so below.
(05/28 02:23:22) DocOlanA: #980: The world beneath the sun and the world hidden from the sun grow together, like a healing wound. Where one goes, the other can't help but follow. Both will know the Bringer of Death. But the Bringer of Life must choose.
(05/28 02:23:43) Thend: Are the names in parentheses your own or in the actual translation?
(05/28 02:23:43) DocOlanA: That was the first piece of information I received from our source.
(05/28 02:23:53) DocOlanA: The names in parentheses are translators notes.
(05/28 02:23:57) Thend nods his head
(05/28 02:24:21) Marten: Very curious. I'd like to see some translations of the prophesies that did come true, sometime
(05/28 02:24:26) DocOlanA: Thr translator clearly believed it pointed to a coming conflict between Yeesha and Ahlsendar. I'm not sure I believe Ahlsendar is the Bringer of Death mentioned, but that's a subject for debate.
(05/28 02:24:31) DocOlanA: So would I, Marten :)
(05/28 02:24:44) DocOlanA: Now, I've saved the second thing we were given for last.
(05/28 02:24:52) DocOlanA: Because in my opinion it's the best thing we were given.
(05/28 02:24:57) Marten: That the translator is speculating about Yeesha at all certainly implies some apparent bias.
(05/28 02:25:32) DocOlanA: As those of you who've read the King books know, after Ahlsendar sealed himself in his tomb, Solanth took the throne. Solanth married a woman named Jolantha, who is generally considered to have been evil (it's speculated she may have been possessed by Jakooth.)
(05/28 02:26:16) DocOlanA: After Solanth died, Jolantha had a lot of influence over her son, Me'erta. Amongst many things she encouraged, or did herself (such as starting a bunch of cults,)
(05/28 02:26:25) Thanakar: Marten, all translations are biased by the translator's knowledge
(05/28 02:26:29) DocOlanA: One of the most devastating things she did was open the tomb of the Great King, where Ahlsendar had disappeared.
(05/28 02:27:02) DocOlanA: This was devastating because, due to this, a plague struck D'ni that almost wiped them out. Ahlsendar had taken the plague-ridden Pento books with him into the tomb.
(05/28 02:27:29) DocOlanA: However, after Jolantha left the tomb, she still lived for several more days. The second piece of information I have is a translation of the last few entries into her journal.
(05/28 02:28:37) DocOlanA: One interesting thing about this journal, the notes I have claim that it is clear from earlier passages that Jolantha was, in fact, the daughter of Nemiya, Ahlsendar's advisor, prophetess, and the woman who later claimed, most vehemently, that Ahlsendar was NOT the true Great King.
(05/28 02:28:38) Thanakar: is this the 2nd translation or just your interpretation of events?
(05/28 02:28:46) DocOlanA: That's just my summary.
(05/28 02:28:53) Thanakar: kk..thanks
(05/28 02:28:54) DocOlanA: I have one note, it's this:
(05/28 02:29:06) DocOlanA: "It is clear from earlier passages that Jolantha's mother was Nemiya, Ahlsendar's advisor"
(05/28 02:29:09) ireenquench wonders about spelling... Solath and Jolatha?
(05/28 02:29:13) DocOlanA: And now, the actual journal:
(05/28 02:30:06) DocOlanA: Leevosahn 8, 1999: It is done, mother! I have finished what you started, you and Solath. Ahlsendar can never return. I broke the seal on Ja'kreen's Folly and followed Ahlsendar into Murcato. The fools still believe him divine! But without his linking books he is just a man trapped in an Age for which I will write a new ending.
(05/28 02:31:00) DocOlanA: Leevosahn 9, 1999: No, mother! How could he believe such lies? Ahlsendar's journal, mother -- he claims you were his lover!
(05/28 02:32:13) DocOlanA: Leevosahn 10, 1999: He was here, mother! Ahlsendar -- in my chamber! He called me daughter and thanked me for fulfilling the prophecy. He gave me your locket, mother, the locket with the golden tree. I can feel it in my hand even now. How can this be? How can a man be 500 years old and look so young? Why, mother? What is wrong with me, mother? So weak, so tired. Why don't the Healers come?
(05/28 02:32:38) DocOlanA: And that's what we have.
(05/28 02:32:41) DocOlanA: After that, Jolantha died.
(05/28 02:32:53) Dave1971: Welcome to The Days of Our Lives.
(05/28 02:33:06) vid: wow
(05/28 02:33:12) DocOlanA: I'm still parsing all this, but it was my source's belief that Ahlsendar, like Yeesha, could spontaneously link.
(05/28 02:33:15) Atheni33 blinks
(05/28 02:33:22) Musicteachersheff: So she married her own father??? wonder if he knew who she was
(05/28 02:33:32) Karn00911: The hall of kings books do mention rumors to the effect that Ahlsendar could
(05/28 02:33:34) DocOlanA: No, she married Solath, Ahlsendar's chosen heir.
(05/28 02:33:42) DocOlanA: ( Not his son, mind you. His heir. )
(05/28 02:33:44) Musicteachersheff: mistake
(05/28 02:34:07) Thanakar: yeesha can spontaneously link??
(05/28 02:34:10) Pituka: She had ambitions
(05/28 02:34:30) DocOlanA: Well, you see why I felt I had to tell you, even without being 100% certain of the authenticity of the documents.
(05/28 02:35:06) Karn00911: And if we are to take the rumors and possibility that Yeesha can link through time, Ahlsendar's unnatural longevity could corroborate that ability.
(05/28 02:35:10) ireenquench: Is the spelling Sola N th and Jola N tha in the source as well?
(05/28 02:35:26) Pituka: For those of us who came late, where were the docs found?
(05/28 02:35:37) Nadnerb: there were no docs
(05/28 02:35:46) Pituka: documents
(05/28 02:35:52) DocOlanA: The spelling is Jolatha. If I said Jolantha that is my mistake.
(05/28 02:35:59) ireenquench: k, thanks
(05/28 02:36:03) Nadnerb: Doc ... typed them.
(05/28 02:36:09) Nadnerb: in chat
(05/28 02:36:10) DocOlanA: Solath, too.
(05/28 02:36:21) Karn00911: I have a feeling that the time-linking powers of people with the ability to inherently link may explain much more about the precision of prophecies regarding them.
(05/28 02:36:26) DocOlanA: Heh. Sorry. No, in my sources it's Solath and Jolatha. I guess I just feel there should be an N in there.
(05/28 02:36:35) DocOlanA: Karn - Quite possibly.
(05/28 02:36:35) ireenquench laughs
(05/28 02:36:36) Thend starts to laugh
(05/28 02:37:17) Thend: Doc, about the comment of Yeesha spontaneously linking, can you proviede an example?
(05/28 02:37:39) ireenquench: I have a hard time grasping the content of the second thing... could somebody summarize how they understood it?
(05/28 02:37:49) DocOlanA: Well . . . those who remember Prologue actually got to see her link in after the cleft started raining, instead of just a hologram.
(05/28 02:38:02) DocOlanA: She spontaneously links in Myst V as well. Esher does it to, but with a bahro skin.
(05/28 02:38:05) Nadnerb: well, any "perfect prophesy" would have to be the resuld of some form of time travel
(05/28 02:38:22) Nadnerb: the end of PotS..
(05/28 02:38:29) Thend: Okay, thanks, Doc
(05/28 02:38:34) DocOlanA: Well, basically, the Me'erta King book leaves a big mystery as to why Jocatha broke open the seal on the tomb.
(05/28 02:38:35) Nadnerb: she links you around for a bit.
(05/28 02:38:45) Thend nods his head
(05/28 02:38:56) Thanakar: are there any examples of Turlikut's prophecies that have came true before this time?
(05/28 02:39:00) DocOlanA: The general opinion was that she was possessed by Jakooth, who used her to open the tomb in order to release the plague.
(05/28 02:39:08) Karn00911: Since Yeesha's abilities seem to mirror the abilities of the Bahro, they also may be able to link through time
(05/28 02:39:14) Thanakar: the events of myst 5 are still open to speculation
(05/28 02:39:33) DocOlanA: However, according to this journal, it was actually an elaborate plot by Solath, Nemiya, and herself to strand Ahlsendar in the ages he took with him, by destroying his linking books.
(05/28 02:39:37) Dave1971: I wonder how Jakooth is able to possess people.
(05/28 02:39:46) DocOlanA: Well, he's the D'ni devil, Dave.
(05/28 02:40:04) Karn00911: Not 100% though
(05/28 02:40:14) DocOlanA: Thanakar - I've been told most of them have, but I don't have any examples of those, no.
(05/28 02:40:17) Thend: The plague being active at all always confounds me. It seemed biological, and something that only lasted in fatal potency for maybe 2 weeks at most
(05/28 02:40:19) Karn00911: In the D'ni creation myth, it doesn't say that Yahvo created Jakooth
(05/28 02:40:37) Karn00911: Jakooth seems to have existed separate to Yahvoh
(05/28 02:40:40) DocOlanA: Right. But he's the opposing viewpoint to Yahvo.
(05/28 02:40:59) Thanakar: are we sure she spontanesouly linked in, or just arrived at her nomrallink in spot via whateverbook she used
(05/28 02:41:08) Karn00911: But it casts them in more of an equal playing field than our traditional God/Devil
(05/28 02:41:09) DocOlanA: Thend - The implication, if Ahlsendar IS the bringer of death, is that he deliberately infected Jolatha, possibly with the locket, and the plague spread from there.
(05/28 02:41:43) DocOlanA: Thanakar - Jolatha seemed to believe she had destroyed all his linking books. Of course, it is possible that he was simply clever and had hidden one.
(05/28 02:41:45) Thend: Okay, thank you, Doc
(05/28 02:42:04) Thanakar was referring ot yeesha actually
(05/28 02:42:04) Stagetree: But she mentions the healers in the same entry as the appearance, which implies she was already ill
(05/28 02:42:30) DocOlanA: But she also speaks about it as though it were something strange. Though it's possible she was infected when she went into the tomb as well.
(05/28 02:42:49) DocOlanA: It's a puzzle piece. And given the current crisis in the cavern, a poigniant one.
(05/28 02:42:55) Dave1971 wonders if Ahlsander is Esher.
(05/28 02:43:16) Stagetree: Which prophecy was Ahlsander referring to?
(05/28 02:43:22) DocOlanA: Or Kadish?
(05/28 02:44:05) DocOlanA: Well, if you believe in coincidence . . . #721 - The Bringer of Death returns at last and is met by the Bringer of Life. The war rages with no end in sight. As above, so below.
(05/28 02:44:18) Musicteachersheff: What is the d'ni year 1999 in relation to our year?
(05/28 02:44:35) DocOlanA: Now, I dislike that expression as it's overused by Wicca. But in this case, it's more likely that it's referring to similarities of events on Earth and D'ni.
(05/28 02:44:48) DocOlanA: And whoever did the translations used "As above so below" to be flowery.
(05/28 02:44:48) Stagetree: It occurs to me the roles could be reversed. She was death, he was life...
(05/28 02:45:01) DocOlanA: Given the current bahro crisis? Could be.
(05/28 02:45:24) DocOlanA: Music - I'll have to ask you to do that math yourself. I'd guess sometime around 4,000-6,000 B.C.
(05/28 02:45:29) DocOlanA: I forget exactly what the dates match up to.
(05/28 02:45:32) Karn00911: Was the translator being flowery or does it mean that the war will spill over into Earth on the surface
(05/28 02:45:45) Musicteachersheff: thanks
(05/28 02:46:21) Thanakar: that or even though we are here in the cavern we bring he surface with us adn will act just the same
(05/28 02:46:21) DocOlanA: Well, I think the similarity between Earth and D'ni is what the prophecy speaks about. But using the exact phrase "As above, so below," that's like when the King James Version uses "Thou" and "Thee." It's caveats of the translated language.
(05/28 02:46:25) Dave1971: The believe that statement is meant to be...for the lack of a better term or even if it exists...relationary.
(05/28 02:46:25) Thanakar: the same below as above
(05/28 02:46:42) Xavius: @_@
(05/28 02:46:46) ireenquench: Do you have a KI mail about this? I would like to read again to be able to follow
(05/28 02:46:53) DocOlanA: Right. Several faiths use "As above, so below" to have some kind of spiritual significance. I think in this case, though, it's far more literal.
(05/28 02:47:14) Thend: As above, so below sounds sorta Lao Tzu-ish, as well
(05/28 02:47:26) DocOlanA: I'll have the translation posted on the "Translation" board at the SoDK website.
(05/28 02:47:36) Karn00911: Great
(05/28 02:48:01) ireenquench: Woould you mind if this was put in KI mail? Nice to have it in cavern
(05/28 02:48:14) DocOlanA: I wouldn't mind at all, though I would ask that you provide some kind of disclaimer.
(05/28 02:48:16) RandallW: Apologies if this has already been covered, since I came in late... do you think there's significance to the break in the bahro standing stones in Minkata?
(05/28 02:48:23) DocOlanA: I don't want it going out with the "full endorsement of the SoDK" as it were.
(05/28 02:49:14) DocOlanA: Not until such time as we've more fully confirmed its authenticity.
(05/28 02:49:16) ireenquench: See, its just that cant follow or think at all cause the thingy is gone, yeah, I'll put what you said in there
(05/28 02:49:20) Travis Ohms: Shorah all, sorry im late ;)
(05/28 02:49:33) DocOlanA: Shorah Travis.
(05/28 02:49:57) Xavius: Yeah, I never thought about it until tonight, but it seems odd that they'd put a picture of something in Minkata we can't yet reach.
(05/28 02:50:12) DocOlanA: What can't we reach in Minkata?
(05/28 02:50:22) Travis Ohms: Oh? waht are you referring to?
(05/28 02:50:26) Stagetree: Doc, you should ask the DRC if you can establish a library of some kind here in this hood. A place to keep journals, etc.
(05/28 02:50:27) Ichabod L.: Maybe we simply haven't found it yet.
(05/28 02:50:43) Musicteachersheff: i'm getting a bit irritated with the lack of Yeesha communication regarding the last few sets of bahro caves....I'd really like to know what exactly we are doing regarding the bahro by taking those donughtpieces
(05/28 02:50:52) Xavius: Well, there was a picture released with a stone with a symgbol on it, and this fan-like shape on the top.
(05/28 02:51:01) Xavius: And nobody's found it.
(05/28 02:51:03) DocOlanA: Well, there's always that alternate theory we heard a while back at one of our meetings.
(05/28 02:51:04) Ichabod L.: I've been asking people about it on the forums, nobody seems to know where it is.
(05/28 02:51:04) Thanakar: Music, that is asuuming yeesha is in a positiont to communicate
(05/28 02:51:13) DocOlanA: That we're not hearing from Yeesha because she's no longer leading us on these journeys.
(05/28 02:51:23) Travis Ohms: Oh, the teaser image that was in gametap?
(05/28 02:51:29) Stagetree: We don't know she's even alive.
(05/28 02:51:31) Ichabod L.: Yes, the smaller one.
(05/28 02:51:33) Xavius: Uh, OOC-ish, yes..
(05/28 02:51:39) RandallW: (OOC: I suspect it's an earlier version of the bahro monolith.)
(05/28 02:51:54) Dave1971: I think we will be seeing Yeesha again.
(05/28 02:51:54) GentleFire: Maybe the image will relate to the gap below Minkata ring?
(05/28 02:51:56) Travis Ohms: Thats wht i thought
(05/28 02:52:02) Travis Ohms: Earlier image
(05/28 02:52:08) DocOlanA: Anyways.
(05/28 02:52:10) Xavius: (OOC: Yeah, its just, its gotta be from somewhere, cause they have Nick or somebody sitting infront of it.)
(05/28 02:52:11) RandallW: (...that whoever put the teaser for Gametap together didn't know was out of date.)
(05/28 02:52:15) DocOlanA: I'll get the translations up on the forums tonight.
(05/28 02:52:22) Ichabod L.: I think the gap is because Ahnonay adn Er'cana were supposed to be before Minkata.
(05/28 02:52:39) DocOlanA: If I could steer the conversation back to the SoDK . . . :)
(05/28 02:52:47) Xavius: Go right ahead, Doc.
(05/28 02:52:58) DocOlanA: We've already been here almost an hour, so I don't think we'll start on king journals tonight unless folks really want to stay later.
(05/28 02:53:12) Dave1971: I never did hear what was "wrong" with the SoDK.
(05/28 02:53:38) RandallW yawns
(05/28 02:53:44) DocOlanA: However, we are currently working through the King journals. We're on Veesha and Mararon now, and after that, there's just Koreen, then the man himself Ahlsendar.
(05/28 02:53:57) Rose: So if Alsendhar can travel thru time, he may be involved in current events?
(05/28 02:53:58) DocOlanA: Given what's in these prophecies and that journal, it should make for some interesting discussion.
(05/28 02:54:09) DocOlanA: And dave, as far as I know, nothing's wrong with it.
(05/28 02:54:19) DocOlanA: Rose - That was our source's theory.
(05/28 02:54:19) Dave1971: k
(05/28 02:54:50) DocOlanA: Where did you hear that something was wrong with the SoDK?
(05/28 02:54:56) Travis Ohms: That would imply that back then he knew about the coming fall of D'ni then
(05/28 02:54:59) Xavius: Ominous. o.0
(05/28 02:55:23) Musicteachersheff: i havn't been studying as I should but why is Alsendhar thought to be the bringer of death?
(05/28 02:56:11) Dave1971: When I first came in the bevin, you were making comments about the SoDK. I interpreted them to mean there was somehting up with them. However, this is wha
(05/28 02:56:27) Dave1971: However, this is what happens when you walk into a convo.
(05/28 02:56:34) Rose: Wasn't Wheely linked to Kadish before things started going very badly?
(05/28 02:56:42) Stagetree: He's hardly the only candidate, though. Veovis, almost everyone in Yeesha's family qualify too.
(05/28 02:56:51) Xavius: She was linked to Gahreesen and Teledahn too.
(05/28 02:56:51) Travis Ohms: She was lined everywere more or less yes
(05/28 02:56:52) Rose: (I"m thinking, Alsendhar=Kadish)
(05/28 02:57:01) Thanakar: Her ki was at least
(05/28 02:57:03) DocOlanA: A possibility, Rose.
(05/28 02:57:12) Xavius: Well, Kadish couldn't really travel through time, but who knows.
(05/28 02:57:13) DocOlanA: As for bringer of death, Ahlsendar created the Pento plague.
(05/28 02:57:19) Xavius: That's why he made Ahnonnay.
(05/28 02:57:24) DocOlanA: This was the plague that, it is believed, later mutated and nearly wiped out the D'ni.
(05/28 02:57:27) Stagetree: More likely Kadish would pass himselff off as Ahlsenar.
(05/28 02:57:38) DocOlanA: And if this journal is to be believed, its possible Ahlsendar deliberately made such a mutation.
(05/28 02:57:42) DocOlanA: Or at least spread it.
(05/28 02:57:51) Stagetree: What motive?
(05/28 02:57:54) Xavius: Like I said, ominous.
(05/28 02:57:58) Travis Ohms: What journal are you reffering to?
(05/28 02:58:05) Rose: And maybe wanted to try to pass himself off as Wheely
(05/28 02:58:06) RandallW: Someone on the forum brought up the possibility -- perhaps wishful -- that the "Wheely" who was killed was a doppelganger.
(05/28 02:58:12) DocOlanA: Xavius - Not precisely. Kadish built Ahnonay to SHOW OFF that he could time travel. As far as we know, even Yeesha hasn't shown that off.
(05/28 02:58:22) RandallW: The link was when the switch was made.
(05/28 02:58:26) Thend: Wow, Rose
(05/28 02:58:34) Stagetree: RandallW, yes I thought something like that too, given instances.
(05/28 02:58:36) Xavius: Oh, that's odd, I must've read my history wrong o.0
(05/28 02:58:38) ireenquench: The survivor in Noloben could be the bringer of death... he "made" /"caused" or "rules" the Bad Bahr?
(05/28 02:58:39) DocOlanA: He created the age specifically to make other D'ni think he was the grower. It's quite possible that he actually could do all those things.
(05/28 02:58:54) Xavius: Ah.
(05/28 02:59:28) DocOlanA: I've been saying for some time that I don't believe the "Bad bahro" are being controlled in any way.
(05/28 02:59:32) Travis Ohms: What journals is this theroy from?
(05/28 02:59:33) Stagetree: But doubtful.
(05/28 02:59:48) DocOlanA: It's quite understandable that an oppressed, enslaved race, having recently been given freedom, might seek vengeance on their captors.
(05/28 02:59:50) Musicteachersheff: POTS cannon?
(05/28 03:00:17) JWPlatt: Not yet, Music...
(05/28 03:00:25) Thend: Mts, it is to me, I took that Journey before D'mala came into being
(05/28 03:00:28) Xavius: Yet others seem more forgiving.
(05/28 03:00:29) ireenquench: So that could have been "caused" ..through bad treatment
(05/28 03:00:35) DocOlanA: I'm pretty sure PotS actually occurred. I haven't actually taken the journeys myself, but I believe some who were here during the original cavern opening took it.
(05/28 03:00:44) Musicteachersheff: Yes but we are not their captors...Wheely was not their captures
(05/28 03:00:49) Ichabod L.: I've heard a DRC member mention that most of us have taken it, so my guess would be that it is.
(05/28 03:01:01) Xavius: I heard some people say Engberg looked like Esher.
(05/28 03:01:06) Xavius: Though he doesn't really at all.
(05/28 03:01:08) Eyanosa Takota: Exacly, why can't our experiences in those matter
(05/28 03:01:08) DocOlanA: Music, can you tell the difference between a Bahro out to kill you, and a Bahro who isn't?
(05/28 03:01:17) DocOlanA: Why do you think they can tell the difference between a D'ni and a human?
(05/28 03:01:20) Xavius: Least, not that I can remember.
(05/28 03:01:23) DocOlanA: Why do you think they would care?
(05/28 03:01:27) RandallW: I haven't taken it.
(05/28 03:01:35) ireenquench holds back with full and complete authenticity of what have experinced as PotS
(05/28 03:01:53) Thend: If you are still alive to consider it, then you have in front of you one of the 'good' Bahro
(05/28 03:02:04) DocOlanA: Point, Thend, but you understand what I'm saying.
(05/28 03:02:14) Thend nods his head
(05/28 03:02:33) DocOlanA: It's possible they think we're D'ni come back to the cavern. Or possibly they don't care.
(05/28 03:02:53) Musicteachersheff: i'm sure we dress differetly, have darker skin, different eyes, wear our hair differently....I suppose a very angry Bahro wouldn't stop to notice those differences
(05/28 03:02:56) Travis Ohms: We are the scapegoat of there rage maybe
(05/28 03:03:01) Karn00911: Or, they may know that we will in the future create a new D'ni, if they can time-link
(05/28 03:03:05) Dave1971: Maybe we should start wearing the shirt Yeesha gave us.
(05/28 03:03:08) DocOlanA: Again. I'm not sure they'd be able to tell easily.
(05/28 03:03:15) Eyanosa Takota: But that is like the Militia that doesn;t kill your family blindly is a good militia
(05/28 03:03:28) DocOlanA: Every Bahro I've seen a picture of looked exactly alike. So it's logical that they use things other than appearance to tell each other's individuality.
(05/28 03:03:29) Eyanosa Takota has a lakota moment
(05/28 03:03:36) JWPlatt: The Bahro which link into the city and the neighborhoods have not harmed anyone.
(05/28 03:03:40) Thend: Doc, if they are not being controlled to engage in specific skirmishes with us, then it is difficult to imagine they have not swooped down and taken us out over 3 years
(05/28 03:04:08) Eyanosa Takota: Has anybody here actually interacted with a bahro
(05/28 03:04:10) Rose: something is preventing the bad bahro from entering the cavern, maybe
(05/28 03:04:13) DocOlanA: I'm not convinced these are specific skirmishes.
(05/28 03:04:18) Eyanosa Takota: Then how can you judge there character
(05/28 03:04:26) Tai'lahr: Maybe they just all look alike to you, but not to each other.
(05/28 03:04:27) DocOlanA: This doesn't sound like a war, so far.
(05/28 03:04:30) Ichabod L.: Possibly the journeys we're going on are giving the Bahro back more of their power.
(05/28 03:04:32) Musicteachersheff: i don't know...yeesha is the one who encouraged us to let the bahro free in the first place, did she know some would go bad? Did it matter, would she have encouraged us differently had she knowns what would happen?
(05/28 03:04:43) DocOlanA: It sounds like a bunch of bahro on a killing spree.
(05/28 03:04:51) Eyanosa Takota: B.S.
(05/28 03:04:56) Thend: I agree there are many things to consider, to achieve a bigger, fuller picture of this, and other, things
(05/28 03:04:57) Ichabod L.: Yeesha seems to have blinders on about the possibility of any Bahro being anything less than a saint.
(05/28 03:04:59) ireenquench: they look different depending on where /how they fold their wings.... if Myst V is accurate about that... maybe the bad and the good can be differentaed through wings status
(05/28 03:05:09) Eyanosa Takota: Is there proof of their killing?
(05/28 03:05:25) Eyanosa Takota: Or word of mouth
(05/28 03:05:26) DocOlanA: Tai - That's my point exactly. They use different indicators to tell individuality, so the things we use - the shape of fine features, skin color, hair, etc. - likely are ignored by them.
(05/28 03:05:32) Musicteachersheff: Exactly...and this recent journey is very obviously related to bahro...
(05/28 03:05:39) Xavius: We still don't really know anything about the chamber where the Bahro would not leave.
(05/28 03:05:43) Travis Ohms: If thebahro were in killing mode, then why did it hang out with wheely so long? i dont think this is a fight of anykind, something spooked that bahro
(05/28 03:05:53) DocOlanA: There's proof, Takota. Wheely was talking about it almost up to the moment of her death, and Sharper saw a whole gang of them.
(05/28 03:06:01) Xavius: Perhaps something Wheely did threatened them into war, or, perhaps it was a sacred place for them meant to never be found.
(05/28 03:06:06) Dave1971: Well, there is Sharper's report of his experience with them in Negilahn.
(05/28 03:06:19) Eyanosa Takota: ANd who is this that is saying toes things
(05/28 03:06:21) Xavius: But that was AFTER Wheely's death.
(05/28 03:06:26) DocOlanA: Travis, Xavius - At the exact same time Sharper was ambushed by bahro.
(05/28 03:06:33) Xavius: Hmm..
(05/28 03:06:42) Musicteachersheff: or maybe a bad bahro linked in and killed Wheely and the good bahro was there trying to warn her
(05/28 03:06:49) Xavius: Its just, I don't think WHeely's death was staged.
(05/28 03:06:49) DocOlanA: The Bahro could have freed Wheely at any time. The bahro could get in and out.
(05/28 03:06:55) Thend: Doc, it is what we heard was being said, not necessairly 'proof'
(05/28 03:06:55) Travis Ohms: Ah, i have not heard about what heppened to sharper yet
(05/28 03:06:58) Xavius: Sharper's definetely was, they lured and waited for him.
(05/28 03:06:59) Eyanosa Takota: Have and EXPLORERS interacted ith them
(05/28 03:07:04) DocOlanA: You want my opinion? I think the bahro only killed her because the DRC was about to break in and take away its prisoner.
(05/28 03:07:13) ireenquench: How do you know the Bahro could get in and out?
(05/28 03:07:21) Tai'lahr: I'm not convinced that Wheely is dead.
(05/28 03:07:22) Xavius: Noloben could've been "No leavin'."
(05/28 03:07:27) DocOlanA: We're not talking about beasts. We're not talking about animals. These things are intelligent, as intelligent as us.
(05/28 03:07:31) Rose: me neither, tai'lahr
(05/28 03:07:32) Karn00911: We've seen the bahro caverns where our linking books didn't function, do we know whether or not bahro can link in those dead zones?
(05/28 03:07:36) Xavius: Or "livin'", even.
(05/28 03:07:43) peni: i agree with you Tai'lahr
(05/28 03:07:54) DocOlanA: Karn - Possibly not. But that's not the case with Wheely.
(05/28 03:07:56) Tai'lahr: Maybe it was the Bahro that died there.
(05/28 03:08:06) DocOlanA: She wasn't in a dead zone. And the bahro managed to get out before anyone else arrived.
(05/28 03:08:16) Xavius: Her KI was on afterwards, maybe she's in a coma, maybe in intensive care.
(05/28 03:08:17) DocOlanA: You know . . . that's not what this meeting is for.
(05/28 03:08:27) RandallW clenches and unclenches fists
(05/28 03:08:28) Xavius: But I doubt that would drive Engberg to a possible suicide.
(05/28 03:08:40) Eyanosa Takota: We cannot even pretend to understand the motives of those that we only know of by word of mouth
(05/28 03:08:47) JWPlatt: Suicide??? He went looking for Watson!
(05/28 03:08:56) DocOlanA: The only thing I'll say is that it's utter foolishness to continue and try to live in an idealistic world of good bahro. They are intelligent creatures, and thus are capable of good and evil, just like us.
(05/28 03:08:57) Eyanosa Takota: Have the effected explorers in a harmful way
(05/28 03:08:58) Xavius: Well, technically we don't know either way.
(05/28 03:09:03) Eyanosa Takota: or any at al
(05/28 03:09:04) Xavius: He was in Descent, went missing.
(05/28 03:09:06) Ichabod L.: We shouldn't assume either way what happened to Enberg.
(05/28 03:09:14) Travis Ohms: Not to get us more off track, but what happened with Nick?
(05/28 03:09:15) Tai'lahr: You're right, Doc.
(05/28 03:09:22) Xavius: There were all sorts of theories going around, that's the one I heard most, thought its POSSIBLE.
(05/28 03:09:26) DocOlanA: I've been saying that since day one. People trying to say that bahro are good . . . bahro weren't good. They were slaves. There's a distinct difference.
(05/28 03:09:29) Travis Ohms: I have not heard anything about that, only he was fired?
(05/28 03:09:30) Eyanosa Takota: we know of their actions by word of mouth
(05/28 03:09:36) Dave1971: And, it's also possible that Sharper lied about what happened in Negilahn.
(05/28 03:09:55) Xavius: Why on Earth would he lie about?
(05/28 03:10:04) Eyanosa Takota: Why not
(05/28 03:10:06) JWPlatt: Anything he chooses to.
(05/28 03:10:08) DocOlanA: Now they're not slaves, and it actually requires some moral fortitude to be good when you don't have a tablet controlling you. I'd guess it's just about as hard for a bahro to be good as it is for a human.
(05/28 03:10:11) Xavius: Maybe exaggerate, or something, but that seems a bit too much.
(05/28 03:10:13) Eyanosa Takota: It is human nature to lie
(05/28 03:10:27) Xavius: I don't think he'd want us to cower and specualte on our own.
(05/28 03:10:32) Eyanosa Takota: If lie is bending the truth, it is still a lie
(05/28 03:10:33) DocOlanA: Now please, that's not why we're here. You can start a debate about the bahro anywhere in the cavern, and people will talk about it for hours. I might even join in, if I'm around.
(05/28 03:10:39) DocOlanA: But not here. We study D'ni history.
(05/28 03:12:06) Eyanosa Takota: History and current events can be one in the same
(05/28 03:12:11) DocOlanA: Yes, they can.
(05/28 03:12:15) Travis Ohms: I agree, ive heard just about enough bahro speculation in the last few days hah ;)
(05/28 03:12:27) DocOlanA: But the good thing about history is that when you debate that, you don't feel the sting of a little girl's death.
(05/28 03:12:40) Eyanosa Takota: And speculation is all we can do at this point
(05/28 03:12:46) Travis Ohms: A new topic would be a refreashing change
(05/28 03:12:47) Xavius sighs..
(05/28 03:12:47) peni: 2 little girls
(05/28 03:12:55) Serephina sighs
(05/28 03:12:59) Karn00911: So, about those kings a real long time ago....
(05/28 03:12:59) DocOlanA: I tend to lose my objectivity when debating the bahro's recent actions. That's a bad trait in a historian. So I'd prefer to stick to history.
(05/28 03:13:02) Eyanosa Takota: Have any of you witnessed the death
(05/28 03:13:07) RandallW: Yes, please. By all means.
(05/28 03:13:09) Xavius: Two hghschool-age girls, not even in College yet..
(05/28 03:13:15) Xavius: Oh, wow, I'm depressing myself.
(05/28 03:13:31) DocOlanA: So.
(05/28 03:13:34) Xavius: I say we let Doc continue wherever he left off.
(05/28 03:13:39) Travis Ohms: What topic of history did you want ot get into doc?
(05/28 03:14:11) DocOlanA: Oh yes. Another thing our source said. In the Solath book it mentions that no one in D'ni questioned the note Ahlsendar supposedly wrote endorsing Solath as his successor, saying that he was to be king because Ahlsendar wasn't coming back.
(05/28 03:14:52) DocOlanA: Our source questioned that. The source suggested that Solath forged that note, as part of his plot (along with Nemiya and Jolatha) to lock Ahlsendar in the Tomb of the Great King and remove his linking books so he could never return.
(05/28 03:15:28) Travis Ohms: Did anyone back then witness Ahlsendar's death?
(05/28 03:15:56) DocOlanA: No, that's the thing. Ahlsendar because distraught over the plague he had unleashed on the Pento. He went into the temple and sealed himself in, and simply never came out again.
(05/28 03:16:00) DocOlanA: As far as anyone knows, at least.
(05/28 03:16:09) nemesis256: i hope you don't mind the slight interruption, but where do you get all of this amazing information from?
(05/28 03:16:23) DocOlanA: Many D'ni, millenia later, still believed that one day he would return.
(05/28 03:16:28) Eyanosa Takota: I'd agree with that question
(05/28 03:16:28) Xavius: I dunno if he could survive too long in the Temple.
(05/28 03:16:32) DocOlanA: Well, most of it is from those wonderful journals in the hall of kings.
(05/28 03:16:43) nemesis256: Ok, that's what I expected
(05/28 03:16:43) Xavius: I suppose he could have linked out, but I don't know..
(05/28 03:16:48) RandallW: Like Arthur from Avalon.
(05/28 03:16:52) DocOlanA: Xavius - He brought linking books with him. All the books he had infected with plague, and apparently a few others, as I recall.
(05/28 03:17:11) Karn00911: He brought the books to old D'ni didn't he?
(05/28 03:17:18) Xavius: Hmm..
(05/28 03:17:18) Travis Ohms: And he didnt have to survive that long if he could time travel. he could of walking into the temple and poofed into the future right then
(05/28 03:17:36) DocOlanA: I'm still not sure how "time travel" works.
(05/28 03:17:48) DocOlanA: I think even Yeesha has to actually write it into a book, doesn't she? Or can she just do it?
(05/28 03:17:55) Travis Ohms: Links to ages are made across time and space
(05/28 03:17:58) DocOlanA: The bahro can just make time speed up.
(05/28 03:18:01) ireenquench: the book is wishy washy about the books... just like with the question about two pento ages or not
(05/28 03:18:14) DocOlanA: Two pento ages?
(05/28 03:18:15) Travis Ohms: If you could write a link to the same age, with the only diffeance being time...
(05/28 03:18:16) DocOlanA: Come again?
(05/28 03:18:53) DocOlanA: Travis - The going theory is that, because of infinite possibilities, you wouldn't actually time travel, you'd simply link to a brand new age very much like the age you just left, but older.
(05/28 03:18:57) Travis Ohms: Links to ages are made across time and space, anywere that what you wrote may have once exsited
(05/28 03:19:06) Travis Ohms: Realy
(05/28 03:19:15) ireenquench: Yeah, the one the Pento people came from...and the one Ahlsendar wrote as part of the their new home... unclear where plague was released and which of the books was sealed
(05/28 03:19:28) DocOlanA: RAWA's said many times that if two people wrote two identical descriptive books, they'd link to two similar, but different ages. Because you're talking about a universe of infinite possibilities.
(05/28 03:19:41) DocOlanA: Oh . . . hmm, never thought of that, ireen.
(05/28 03:19:49) Travis Ohms: Well, no one said it was easy to do
(05/28 03:19:49) DocOlanA: Yeah, if he plagued the new book . . . that kinda makes it even worse, doesn't it?
(05/28 03:20:32) ireenquench: it makes no difference where genocide takes place?
(05/28 03:20:50) Eyanosa Takota cringes at the word
(05/28 03:21:24) DocOlanA: well, I suppose that's a point.
(05/28 03:21:36) DocOlanA: It's bad any way you look at it.
(05/28 03:21:52) DocOlanA: Incidentally, my personal opinion is that Ahlsendar was not the great king. But that's just my opinion.
(05/28 03:22:13) ireenquench: Did you mean ... if it was the new age, it would have made him a worse traitor?
(05/28 03:22:20) Amaru waves hello
(05/28 03:22:22) Karn00911: So do you think the great king is yet to come?
(05/28 03:22:25) Scarlette: didn't meant to scare you, sorry
(05/28 03:22:34) Scarlette: :P
(05/28 03:22:44) DocOlanA: Prophecies are funny things. They're much easier to fulfill in hindsight.
(05/28 03:22:47) Eyanosa Takota: A king only has power if the people believe in it
(05/28 03:22:59) DocOlanA: Personally, I tend not to believe in prophecies.
(05/28 03:23:28) Dave1971: Well, the term "great" is relative. The person described can be kind and benevolent, or a brutal tyrant.
(05/28 03:23:46) JWPlatt: Prophesies would be better if they named names, places, and newspaper headlines without all the vahuary. :)
(05/28 03:23:58) ireenquench roars with laughter
(05/28 03:24:00) Karn00911: Hehe, agreed.
(05/28 03:24:04) JWPlatt: that word was 'vaguary'
(05/28 03:24:07) Thend: Doc, what is the significance of prophecy-related texts to you if they personally don't hold much weight for you?
(05/28 03:24:23) RandallW: "Jeffrey David Sinclair"
(05/28 03:24:49) DocOlanA: We live for the one. We would die for the one.
(05/28 03:24:51) DocOlanA: :)
(05/28 03:25:00) DocOlanA: Thend . . . they meant a great deal to the D'ni.
(05/28 03:25:05) JWPlatt: Zathras
(05/28 03:25:15) Thend nods his head
(05/28 03:25:22) Nadnerb: isn't it just "We die for the one"?
(05/28 03:25:33) Nadnerb: no "would"..
(05/28 03:25:57) JWPlatt: Either way, bad for Zathras.
(05/28 03:25:57) DocOlanA: I'm pretty sure he says "Would" the first time he shows up, in Season 1. But that's neither here nor there, and I could be misremembering.
(05/28 03:26:25) Travis Ohms: Time and space are interconnected, if you gave a genius the ability to move to anyplace in the universe (linking), they may be able to figure out a way to time travel
(05/28 03:26:26) RandallW: Heh.
(05/28 03:26:27) Nadnerb: ah..
(05/28 03:26:34) RandallW: Poor Zathras.
(05/28 03:26:55) Nadnerb: is used to being other people's beast of burden...
(05/28 03:26:56) crazycatlady: yes, it was a buddy pm. now i'm sad too. i should have kept my mouth shut :( we have to get you on it
(05/28 03:27:14) DocOlanA: Well, Travis, here's a poser for you - why can Yeesha (and Catherine for that matter) write things the D'ni cannot? Is it because they're special . . .
(05/28 03:27:31) DocOlanA: Or because the Maintainers and the Writers guilds discouraged the creativity of genius?
(05/28 03:27:33) Robert F. Caine: Prophetic texts try to aproach truth from the general, Myth on the other hand aproches it from the specific, in fact no story is a true myth unless it has mutualy exclusive variations.
(05/28 03:27:37) Nadnerb: or because they're simply not .. restricting themselves
(05/28 03:27:50) Nadnerb: to any rulse
(05/28 03:27:58) Nadnerb: and rules..
(05/28 03:28:31) DocOlanA: I also suspect the D'ni of heavily editing their own history.
(05/28 03:28:43) RandallW: Gasp.
(05/28 03:28:45) JWPlatt: What, they had a wiki?
(05/28 03:28:47) Travis Ohms: There is a lot about linking we dont know, im not saying Ahlanhser could time travel, just i would not rule it out
(05/28 03:28:51) Nadnerb: heh...
(05/28 03:28:55) Nadnerb: what a suprise.... :P
(05/28 03:28:57) Travis Ohms: Hah, you mean 1984 style?
(05/28 03:29:16) DocOlanA: Editing the bahro out, and editing it so that despite all the rotten things he did, despite the fact that just two kings later worship of Yahvo would be in danger of disappearing, the Ahlsendar journal claims that he brought the people back to the religion of Ri'neref.
(05/28 03:29:26) Travis Ohms: "we were always at war with oceana"
(05/28 03:29:38) ireenquench: Or because Yeesha learned from other sources than the traditional, like the Bahro, possibly (if PotS is historically accurate)
(05/28 03:29:45) JWPlatt: In a linking book, editing that history could be significant.
(05/28 03:30:12) DocOlanA: Well, we know that the D'ni had state education.
(05/28 03:30:17) JWPlatt: Correction: Descriptive Book
(05/28 03:30:18) Travis Ohms: Not literaly editing it, you mean more like lieing right
(05/28 03:30:39) DocOlanA: Travis - I mean re-writing the history books so that children learn what the state wants them to learn.
(05/28 03:30:56) Travis Ohms: Yes, thats what i figued you men
(05/28 03:31:15) Travis Ohms: The victors of a war always look like the right ones in history
(05/28 03:31:22) DocOlanA: It was considered proper for them to believe Ahlsendar was the hero, and Jolatha was possessed by Jakooth. And so that is what was taught, despite the fact that a careful look at the facts throws these things into doubt.
(05/28 03:31:42) Travis Ohms: History is written by the victors
(05/28 03:31:56) DocOlanA: It was also considered proper to believe that the cavern has ever always only been for the D'ni, and that bookworlders have never lived there, and yet the Bahro came from somewhere.
(05/28 03:32:02) Eyanosa Takota: Oh you mean like the war in which the white man wiped out an entire race in the country
(05/28 03:32:10) peni: people believe what they are told to believe
(05/28 03:32:33) DocOlanA: Carefuly, Eyanosa. The nice thing about D'ni history is that telling the truth about that isn't likely to alienate anyone.
(05/28 03:32:44) JWPlatt: There are FOUR lights!
(05/28 03:33:04) DocOlanA: If we're going to start debating American hsitory, I'm going to pull out my books on Lincoln and probably be stoned by a mob by the end of the night :)
(05/28 03:33:04) Travis Ohms: um?
(05/28 03:33:10) Eyanosa Takota grins
(05/28 03:33:34) Travis Ohms: Good timg your not, i left my stoning bag at home
(05/28 03:33:39) Travis Ohms: Thing*
(05/28 03:33:46) DocOlanA: But that's honestly why I like having a group like this. Because the D'ni did edit their history. And it's good to have multiple perspectives to try and work through that.
(05/28 03:33:51) Eyanosa Takota: Lincon was no saint
(05/28 03:33:57) JWPlatt finds a penny and throws it at Doc
(05/28 03:34:02) DocOlanA: Because you guys pick up things that I miss.
(05/28 03:34:28) RandallW: No human is a saint.
(05/28 03:34:39) DocOlanA: Eyanosa - seriously. Stop. They still have witch-hunts for people who don't like Lincoln, if you want to debate it, pm me afterwards :)
(05/28 03:34:55) Eyanosa Takota: lol
(05/28 03:34:56) DocOlanA: It's hard to be a historian interested in facts sometimes :)
(05/28 03:35:04) Travis Ohms: randal: what about santa claus? ;)
(05/28 03:35:14) peni nods her head
(05/28 03:35:19) DocOlanA: Or Francis of Assisi. Technically he was a saint.
(05/28 03:35:22) Dave1971 debates on American history are best left on the surface. =)
(05/28 03:35:31) peni: thats what we teach our children
(05/28 03:36:01) peni: saying it does not make it so
(05/28 03:36:07) Eyanosa Takota: What about mother teresa, she was pretty cool
(05/28 03:36:21) JWPlatt: Saint Nickolas is human?
(05/28 03:36:28) DocOlanA: But that's what we're up against. We're up against a state educational system that existed in D'ni in some form since the beginning (after Mararon, who was two kings before Ahlsendar, it REALLY had a hold. Mararon established longer education periods for children, and opened the education system up to almost everyone.)
(05/28 03:37:09) DocOlanA: So as you're reading the king books, remember that you're looking at D'ni history, as told by the D'ni, as seen through the political bias of the time.
(05/28 03:37:25) Nadnerb: but what time in particular?
(05/28 03:37:28) Stagetree: It's odd history says little about Mararon given he established better education.
(05/28 03:37:39) RandallW: Nadnerb: Beat me to it.
(05/28 03:37:41) Travis Ohms: The very fact of there long life may for reigns of kings history more interesting. you can do alot of things in 200 years of absolute power
(05/28 03:37:49) Nadnerb: as the DRC says, those are compliations of stuff they think they figured out.
(05/28 03:38:01) Nadnerb: from translating various documents
(05/28 03:38:05) DocOlanA: Unfortunately the notebooks we have are DRC summaries, likely taken from a wide variety of sources.
(05/28 03:38:06) RandallW: Using documents from a very wide time range.
(05/28 03:38:14) DocOlanA: And they didn't believe in bibliographies.
(05/28 03:38:15) flora: sit
(05/28 03:38:29) Travis Ohms: And those journals hold the opions of the summarizer as well
(05/28 03:38:57) Nadnerb: that too. We don't even have "authors" for the book of kings...
(05/28 03:39:01) Nadnerb: books
(05/28 03:39:04) RandallW: Of course, that's the thing -- they're summaries.
(05/28 03:39:07) From flora: how you guys do in order to sit?
(05/28 03:39:10) Dave1971: It's too bad Nick isn't here. He translated some of the information and wrote some of those summaries.
(05/28 03:39:22) Scarlette: p/ Thend hey dudey, i'm going to head out. I can barely keep my eyes open. :-( Seeya later!
(05/28 03:39:27) Travis Ohms: And all summaries are slanted by the writer some how, its there interpritation
(05/28 03:39:36) RandallW: We don't have access yet to more extensive, in depth works.
(05/28 03:39:42) Travis Ohms: What happend with nick?
(05/28 03:39:46) Travis Ohms: I heard he was fired?
(05/28 03:40:17) From flora: hello anybody?
(05/28 03:40:29) Robert F. Caine: Those all came from the first cavern expedition, we have the names of 5 of the translators (nick was one.)
(05/28 03:40:40) DocOlanA: Right. 5 of them?
(05/28 03:40:46) DocOlanA: Thought there were only 3. Or was that later?
(05/28 03:41:10) Travis Ohms: Is Simpson a translator?
(05/28 03:41:13) DocOlanA: There was Nick, Sam, Tricia . . . who were the other two?
(05/28 03:41:19) JWPlatt: Homer?
(05/28 03:41:28) Serephina: Michelle
(05/28 03:41:29) Robert F. Caine: nich Trisha, Michelle, Phil (dead) and Mathew
(05/28 03:41:33) Travis Ohms: No, the writer of the journal in Gahressen
(05/28 03:41:35) Robert F. Caine: nick
(05/28 03:41:52) DocOlanA: What about Sam? His name's on some of the Tokatah books.
(05/28 03:42:15) Nadnerb: the problem here seems to be that we don't actually have any literal translations, only ... "summaries"...
(05/28 03:42:27) DocOlanA: Right. But we make do with what we have.
(05/28 03:42:35) Godschild waves hello
(05/28 03:42:41) Nadnerb: unless some were direct translations of some sort of D'ni educatoinal texts
(05/28 03:42:47) DocOlanA: And hopefully, hopefully, I can milk my sources to get more info.
(05/28 03:42:48) RandallW: We have a couple, but only a couple.
(05/28 03:43:12) Nine-O-Nine: i wondered if that was the case, Nad.
(05/28 03:43:17) Robert F. Caine: i remember the name But at the time I compiled my notes I had the impression that he was Not a member of that team, Will have to go back and check my reason.
(05/28 03:43:42) Nadnerb: I could see the hall of kings books being a sort of textbook excerpts
(05/28 03:43:44) RandallW: The Shomat story, and the... which one fired all the Healer's Guild leaders for fleeing?
(05/28 03:43:55) DocOlanA: I'd like to hear more about that, Robert.
(05/28 03:44:07) RandallW: I'm tired, and my memory isn't working so well.
(05/28 03:44:30) DocOlanA: Oh, that's the story in the library.
(05/28 03:44:41) RandallW: The ones in the library, yeah.
(05/28 03:44:45) Robert F. Caine: I will go back and check. I am sure ofthe other 5 however, they all signed one text or another.
(05/28 03:44:46) DocOlanA: Kedri story.
(05/28 03:44:53) DocOlanA: Thanks, Robert.
(05/28 03:44:55) RandallW: The couple in the library and the one in Kemo.
(05/28 03:44:58) Heatha does a dance
(05/28 03:45:12) Nadnerb: that was the shomat one..
(05/28 03:45:15) DocOlanA: Kemo is the Shomat story, it has nothing to do with the healers. But Kedri story, that's the one that talks about the plague.
(05/28 03:45:41) RandallW: Yeah, but that and Shomat are examples of direct translations rather than summaries.
(05/28 03:46:02) DocOlanA: True, though we still don't have a timeline for when that translation was made.
(05/28 03:46:04) RandallW: Is what I'm saying.
(05/28 03:46:11) RandallW: Not very well.
(05/28 03:46:11) DocOlanA: We really need to talk to the DRC about their researching skills :)
(05/28 03:46:34) RandallW: God, I'm tired.
(05/28 03:46:36) Dave1971: Well, their firing of translators doesn't help.
(05/28 03:46:58) Robert F. Caine: we can narrow most of it down to a few years as far as the translations go.
(05/28 03:47:15) JWPlatt watches God answer as he smotes RandallW
(05/28 03:47:17) Travis Ohms: OOC: i wonder if the fireing is a tool they are using to keep things vauge?
(05/28 03:47:18) Dave1971: And I don't think the DRC is looking for a replacement either, but I could be wrong.
(05/28 03:47:19) Nine-O-Nine: either their research skills, or their presenting skills.....
(05/28 03:47:44) DocOlanA: Well, if need be, I'm perfectly willing to continue to work outside the DRC to get translations.
(05/28 03:48:28) DocOlanA: And feel free to tell people all about these translations (I'll be putting them on the website directly.) Just remember, please do tell them that we're not 100% sure that these are authentic.
(05/28 03:48:29) Robert F. Caine: there are at least 3 more translators from the first expidition that we havent heard anything about this year who may still be working for the DRC.
(05/28 03:48:30) Nadnerb: we appreciate your efforts. :)
(05/28 03:48:31) Rose: Nick said he had some additional documents in his posession
(05/28 03:48:48) Rose: that he'd be willing to share with us
(05/28 03:48:50) DocOlanA: Yeah, Nick also said he'd be giving some of those to us, but I haven't heard from him.
(05/28 03:48:57) Nine-O-Nine: for all we know.... there may be a pile of great rough drafts of translations, fully documented, but no cash to get them published/printed, and no time to organise them to be used by us (they want the original intact, not stolen or damaged)
(05/28 03:49:00) DocOlanA: So if you see him, bug him about it :)
(05/28 03:49:09) Nadnerb: But isn't the DRC working on a reduced staff though?
(05/28 03:49:22) Nadnerb: it seems likely that they didn't bother to rehire them
(05/28 03:49:37) Robert F. Caine: Quite possible.
(05/28 03:49:38) DocOlanA: Well, I think that about wraps it up for tonight.
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow!!! That was interesting...!!! Shocked Cool

That's what is needed...thanks for posting this Very Happy

Read it, printed that, now have to assimilate that all...

Thanks again Razz
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for posting this Marten! Very Happy Finally some new translations again... Very interesting, especially that bit about Yeesha and Ahlsendar, although that's more speculation. Maybe He is the one that has come or will come...

And if anyone is worried about the hidden source, trust me. Last week, I saw an experienced D'ni translator promising DocOlanA to send him some texts. Of course I won't reveal the name of the source but trust me, those translations should be all right. Smile
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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm... A ResEng on the DRC forums says that the Jolatha journal is false...
I'm wondering if the ResEng speaks the truth, or that he just had to say this because the translation wasn't supposed to be released to the public...
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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I'm really wondering what's going on there. We were merrily discussing the texts, Doc was expounding on the connotations of the documents, and suddenly ResEng 426 drops in and sez:
ResEng426 wrote:
That Jolatha journal is a fake.

That's it.

So we questioned him of course, and he replied

ResEng426 wrote:
It's just a fake. Real fake. Definitely out of Cavern stuff, if you get my meaning.

Be seeing you,

Very, very peculiar wording there...

So did Doc make this stuff up? Or is the DRC disavowing the authenticity of the texts because a disgruntled ex-employee is handing them around and the DRC wants to keep them private?
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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It gets better and better.

DniAdmin wrote:
The documents in question must be fakes; they have not been translated by the DRC or Nick White. Nick White released the creation story documents. He has not released any others.

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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But wait! There's yet more...

DniAdmin wrote:
The documents in questions have been determined as fakes by the DRC. The DRC have contacted all the translators who are currently working for and formerly worked for the DRC. None of the translators have even heard of the documents in questions and they are not in the database of found items.

Be weary of ever releasing documents before they have had some sort of official approval. I would also be weary of your source from now on.

Ah, good times in Academia Fraud Land... Rolling Eyes

If it was a ResEng making these comments, I'd still be hesitant. But the site admin stepped in to say this, so I'm a little more inclined to believe it...

It's actually kinda too bad, if these were real it would have been an awesome bombshell and something to chew on for awhile!
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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be weary?

Yeah, I'm very tired of this too. Laughing
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, what do you think? Are they really fake? Perhaps Nick did release it, but he didn't dare to say that to the DRC when asked about? Confused

It's a shame... those were cool documents. Sad
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My vote is fake; most prophets are Wink
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marten wrote:
My vote is fake; most prophets are Wink

well that raises the question - was the document a fake, or was the text "fake"?

I.e., are they forgeries of D'ni documents, or are they really D'ni documents that are fictional or just aren't true?

Cuz you could have an authentic document written by a "fake" prophet...
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shocked Rils, now you made the whole issue even more complicated! Laughing

I think I'll wait until DocOlanA contacted his source again...

By the way, isn't it odd that we get so many responses from the DRC about these texts? And so fast? Normally, the DRC never gives any responses to forum threads, so why this hurry? Maybe because the DRC wants to make sure that no one believes those texts. After all, these are not just texts... some of them are about the present.
Maybe the DRC members realise the importance of this matter and want to keep the texts for themselves...
I don't know, just a thought, but those fast ResEng responses make me feel suspicious.
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Erik wrote:
Maybe the DRC members realise the importance of this matter and want to keep the texts for themselves...
I don't know, just a thought, but those fast ResEng responses make me feel suspicious.

My thoughts exactly. That's why I was suspicious when the ResEng jumped on the topic. It's either a legitimate shut down to make sure things don't get out of hand, or the DRC has started playing games with us on the forums again.

The fact that the site admin entered the conversation and made some very final-sounding statements tends to make think it's the former, but just like you said, the whole thing just feels weird...

ResEngs just haven't interacted like this with us before, and the suddenness of it is very peculiar. I guess we'll just hafta wait and see what Doc has to say.
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Curiouser and curiouser...

I recently received a statement from my source. She asked that it be posted here. After reading it, I hope some of the reasons that I agreed to keep her identity anonymous become clear.

Now that this is out in the open, perhaps the ResEngs and the Site Admin (or perhaps the DRC itself) could post their thoughts on the subject?

Tricia Isaacson’s Statement

May 31, 2007, Sacramento, CA

Firstly, please accept my assurance that the translations, “Jolatha’s Journal” and “Turlikut’s Dreams,” were supplied by me and not by DocOlanA or any member of the Student’s of D’ni Knowledge. I sought out the Students of D’ni Knowledge as a means to disseminate these controversial findings after I rediscovered them among my old papers, but never intended this fine organization or its members to fall victim to undue scrutiny on my account.

Isaacson is my maiden name, and the one I am using in the cavern. It is not the name I used when I worked for Matthew Harrington and the DRC in 2002 and 2003 as a translator. I will not go into any great detail here about how I came to have these and other documents originally in possession by the DRC, however I will state for the record that I am not an intentional thief. I had an intense interest in Ahlsendar and prophesies surrounding his reign and possible return, however I was not encouraged to pursue these subjects in the course of my employ. I will admit, in hindsight, to a serious lapse in good judgment. I discussed my past at some length with DocOlanA, and I encourage him to release the chatlogs of those conversations.

If I seem a little reticent to give a full detailed account, it is because I signed a non-disclosure agreement with the DRC during the original restoration, and am understandably reluctant to be prosecuted for violating it. However, since the DRC’s official position seems to be to deny the existence of these documents rather than to acknowledge them, it seems unlikely now that they will reverse themselves and take me to court. When I first approached the Students of D’ni Knowledge, I did so fearfully and with strict instructions that I remain anonymous. But now, if these documents are to be taken seriously, I see I must come forth.

For the record, I am pro-DRC, and will remain so. But I am also pro-explorer.

Thank you for reading.


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2007 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

::head explodes::
~Moiety Jean

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