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Question about English...
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Erik
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:22 am    Post subject: Question about English... Reply with quote

Shorah,

I'm translating some journals and documents to Dutch, and I have a little question now. I decided to post it here, as it's just a little question, and I think my question would be overrun on a big forum like MOUL or UO. Razz

From the Story of Me'erta:
Quote:
"The Guild of Writers has long had their rules, their restrictions, and their ancient oaths. But you realize, my son, that these words are old now, and no longer the ways of our people."


The quoted verb form.... is that a subjunctive mood?

Thanks in advance! Smile
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Professor Askew
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't you know us Americans don't know nothin' 'bout no English? Is you crazy? Razz
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Professor Askew wrote:
Don't you know us Americans don't know nothin' 'bout no English? Is you crazy? Razz


Me fail English?? That's unpossible!
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Erik
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL. Well, you should know more than me at least. Laughing
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Professor Askew
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not from me. I'm a writer and I've never even heard of subjunctive mood. Well, it's not a phrase that comes up much.

But, I will attempt to answer your query without doing research.


Mmmmmm. I don't know.

Anyone else?
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Erik
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it's an old-fashioned verb form.

For example:
"Long live the king" doesn't mean that the king will live long. It means "May the king live long".

So, "But you realize, my son", could mean that Me'erta realises that all those rules are no longer required. Or, his mother is hoping that he will realise that, as in "May you realize, my son".

Most verb forms in the subjunctive mood are identical to the indicative in English.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not convinced this is subjunctive, as it seems to be more of a neutered interrogative (a super-technical grammatical term that I just made up).

Consider the sentence in the following form:

"Do you realize, my son, that these words are old now, and no longer the ways of our people?"

Now transform that direct question into something like this:

"You do realize, don't you (my son), that these words are old now, and no longer the ways of our people?"

The "don't you" leaves the door open to ending the sentence with a question mark.

Finally, chop it some more to get this:

"You realize, my son, that these words are old now, and no longer the ways of our people."

It seems as if it's trying to get to the subjunctive mood/form, but I don't think it quite makes it. Subjunctive mood/form is almost always characterized by a transformation of the verb in the secondary clause, which in this case is "that these words are old now, and no longer the ways of our people." No such transformation there, so I don't think it fits as a subjunctive expression.
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Marten
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or, the sentence could be a truncated form of either:

You should realize, my son...

-or-

I expect that you realize, my son...

The meaning is similar between these two interpretations and shouldn't cause much confusion.
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Erik
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, thank you for the replies! Very Happy
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Sa'rUK
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2007 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or, maybe something like "Have you figured out, my son.......
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Erik
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

/ne is needing some more Linguistic assistance. Razz

"For is it Terahnee that you seek."

It seems to me that the word order is a bit uncommon ('is it' instead of 'it is'), unless the writer forgot the question mark.... Could someone clear this up, please? Smile
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Professor Askew
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not seeing it in context but it does look like the question mark is missing.
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Marten
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Erik,

I think we need more context - what sentences precede and follow the one you've given?

This could be a simple translation error by the original author. He or she might have meant "it is."
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Erik
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Grand Master Tremal was old in age and wise beyond even his years. And his decision was hard (the word is a certain kind of stone that was considered to be the most hard and immovable) and he would not be moved.

"Never will we change what Ailesh has written in the oaths. Never we will change what we have spoken for generations. Never will we allow a crack to be opened in the great wall of our Guild. For is it Terahnee that you seek. But is Terahnee not the reason we exist?"

Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel like the words "is" and "it" are transposed... The context suggests the sentance "For it is Tehranee that you seek."
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