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Discussion: Joining The Great Tree
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Daedalus
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Joined: 02 Dec 2003
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Location: Daedalus is currently exploring in the city age.

PostPosted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

brian wrote:
There's also another implicit requirement of being a member of the Great Tree and that is the potential to be excluded from other groups. I still firmly believe there will again be a time when sides are chosen. Our group intends to align with the side that represents what we already stand for. This alignment, as with any choice, will bring both consequences and rewards. That's why there's a difference between "Members" and everyone else. Both for protection, and distinction.

Which is exactly why I think implementing Cyan's Great Tree design is essential at this point. People who come to this forum will immediately see the symbol, so they will know which, you might say, "territory" they have entered. GT can be instantly associated with those ties now, which will prevent confusion of where we stand as a group.
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Rils
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that when Live starts again and we renew our presence in the Cavern, "what is the Great Tree" will pop up more often as a question. Back in Prologue, everyone knew of the group to a greater or lesser extent, and it was usually seen as being rather antagonistic. We weren't content to go with the status quo, and got a reputation as such. Some people will be attracted TGT because of that. After all, we ARE a bunch of trouble makers... Twisted Evil

I wasn't part of it though, at the time. I was, well, you know the sort, those quiet outsiders who heard about the events second hand, who knew of people but never met them. I'm honored to be included in the current line-up of membership, even if it was rather by proxy of setting up camp under the stairs in the hood. (yeah, sorry about the junk food wrappers I threw in the Egg room, I'll go clean those out...)

To learn, to grow, to experience, to journey; this is my call to D'ni. Though we all hear the same lessons, we all learn differently from them. It is not merely facts, as some like to think. It is us! We are the branches of possibility, and how we grow together shapes the whole. One of the things I like about this group is that it challenges that growth - makes you question why you are doing what you are doing. Open your mind, explore possibilities, feel free to think outside the boundaries of what you are told. This to me is The Great Tree.

Everyone who joins will bring something new to the group, and eventually it will grow beyond our close-knit little group here. When that happens, who will make the decision as to membership? Brian alone? The admins, mods, members at large, membership sponsors? Think about the response when TGT was first organized. There were a couple hundred people who stepped up, right? What happens when we get that big again?

~Rils
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Professor Askew
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent ponderings.
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brian
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great points. All I can say is, we're working on it Wink

We have a rough idea in place, we just haven't formalized it enough to announce it. I'm sure that when the actual question of new membership presents itself we'll be forced to address it. Until then, the only thing I can say is that Membership is a delicate thing because it represents risk/reward for both the member and the group.
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dcos
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
All I can say is, we're working on it Wink


I love it when you get all mysterious brian Very Happy
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Rils
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian: "Are you pondering what I'm pondering...?"

Pinky: "I think so, Brian, but where are we going to find a duck and a hose at this hour?"
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Lord Chaos
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow. I haven't gone crazy. I searched and searched, and was about to start searching another forum for this in case I'd misremembered the location.

Thank you for bringing this back to where I can see it. I don't have time at the moment for a real addition, but will do so when I'm free.


Professor Askew wrote:
Well, that's embarassing...especially when you consider the subject....discussing the parameters of joining TGT.....then sticking it in a private forum.


When I came back after posting the original and saw no responses, I was surprised. I gave it another couple of days and then got curious. The thought crossed my mind that it had been suppressed, but that didn't make much sense. I'm glad I can rejoin the party now. Smile

Yay. Got the quote tags figured out on this board.


Last edited by Lord Chaos on Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:05 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Durin Mephit
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll bring my post over here...

We've got a small irony here, that the Great Tree is about openness and not hiding things... exploration without boundaries... and yet we are evaluating others for membership status. But being open doesn't mean being overtrusting; an idea about openness must unfortunately be defended against those who preach for closedness, and the last thing you'd want to do is hand your playbook to those who seek to undermine your cause.

Our group believes that division among explorers is inevitable. There will be too many explorers for us to all remain on the same common ground all the time. Issues will arise where people will disagree on the best course of action. When the Great Tree chooses a stance on an issue, we want to be certain that all of us stand together as a whole. We do not want ourselves to be internally divided. And standing with us... that may mean being excluded from other groups. In some ways this is already reflected in Uru, the game; you cannot wear a greeter's shirt and Yeesha's shirt at the same time. Although you may embrace both, you must choose which aspect you reflect the most. We think that there will be deeper choices to make in Uru than just a piece of clothing... choices that will have consequences.
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Lord Chaos
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian wrote: There's also another implicit requirement of being a member of the Great Tree and that is the potential to be excluded from other groups.

I've seen a lot of this in the Cavern, and outside of it. Groups defended against one another. I'm not much of a joiner, and on Tapestry I maintained a neutral stance. I went anywhere and talked with anyone and ended up belonging nowhere. I met people there, though, with whom I'm still friends. We still meet in the Cavern every week for music and conversation. They also aren't joiners.

I kept hearing about the Guild of Greeters. Curiosity led me to join their forum, and I found interesting people there. When Zam and Old Man talked me into starting the "Up On the Roof!" party early enough for Europeans to attend, I turned to the Greeters for help. Read the "Help Wanted" threads over there. They're fun. I'd looked at the requirements for membership there and decided I didn't really spend enough time in the Cavern to join so I let it go. Then the Greeters invited me to join, based on what I was already doing. It hasn't changed the way I am in the Cavern, but it was nice that people noticed.

One of my happier moments in playing Uru Complete Chronicles was when I got to Eder Tomahn and found Watson's journal. if a stalwart of the DRC could finally start asking the right questions I figured there was hope for the whole outfit. I ended up being very sad at the end, though, because there was no one else in the Cavern.

An aside: By the time I got to UruCC I'd become far too goal-oriented. Myst 3 and Myst 4 had trained me. The barely-adequate computer I played the game on exacerbated the problem, narrowing my focus to just the task at hand. Still, I picked up Yeesha's message, probably because it so closely parallels the way I feel about life in general. For example, I'm a follower of Jesus who believes that DRC-like ideas pervade modern Christian culture. We'd be much better off with a relational, growth-based model, and I believe that this is what Jesus and the Holy Spirit intend.

So, I guess you first have to decide if you want more members. Smile Then you work out how to get them, should you decide to look for more. Do you wait for them to wander through the door? This has advantages in that those who manage to find the place have demonstrated interest, tenacity, and skill in searching. At least for now. Once there's a more active presence in the Cavern, Great Tree folks will be easier to find.


Professor Askew wrote: We want to know what Phil knows.

Yes... where did he go? Where is he now? Where has he been?


dcosgrove wrote: I say probably the later is best. Embra
ce all who seek the journey...


I think this is very important. Groups need newcomers, to replace those who drop out for various reasons, and for new looks at old ideas. I'm always surprised, when I wander around the Ages with someone else, that I still see new things in there. New eyes.


Cycreim wrote: We're a group of friends, and we're also a group of people who share a common ideology.

Ideology... this can be dangerous. It can also be freeing, if the ideas grow as the branches on the tree. Growth essential to any branch, I think. So, perhaps prospective new branches have to live among the attached ones for a time to see how they fit. Anyone in a hurry sort of self-selects themselves away from a tree-growth model. Smile


CuzinJohn wrote: Back in the Prologue, I can't tell you how many folks I'd meet that were only concerned with getting to the ending rather then enjoying the Journey.

This makes me really sad. So many times I've tried to tell people "You only play this for the first time once. Take your time. Enjoy the walk." But our modern, goal-oriented sociedty militates against this... and they rush through, missing the details that Cyan so skillfully weaves in.


Rils wrote: To learn, to grow, to experience, to journey; this is my call to D'ni.

Yes. I wish I could have walked the Cavern with others, when it was all new. As it is, I'm treading well-plowed ground and the main eplorations I've been able to do have been of other people's worlds. Long discussions in the Cavern. For some reason people will spend time in there and pause for interaction.

I look forward to being in new situations with other explorers. This is going to make things a lot different. There may still be a need and desire for parties such as "Roof!" but it'll no longer be survival rations. Perhaps they will be celebrations of new learnings.

Trees grow. That's what they do, just like babies. I hope that the New Tree attracts adults who can still grow.
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brian
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Lord Chaos! Great post. Let me see if I can clarify some things... without glossing over too much.

Joining GT won't exclude you from groups like the Greeters, or other groups that are all inclusive. However, it may end up excluding you from other groups that are formed when we choose sides, which may end up excluding you from certain other Ages (controlled by the other sides, for example). I'm not positive about this particular aspect as it relates to the new Live so I won't go into it further, but it would have applied to the old one, so I'm guessing it'll still be applicable.

GT is not affiliated with any real life religious group. We're our own cult. (Just kidding, we're not a cult! Very Happy But evidently at some point there was a rumor that we were. I find that amusing.) With regard to that, I'd like to let you know that everyone here respects everyone else's beliefs, but we request that people don't talk about religion or religious figures here. It's just too complicated. Certain aspects of what we do in the Cavern may or may not align themselves with individual group members morality, and I'm sure we'll have to address those sorts of things again. It was a problem in the past - which makes us slightly less patient with people who prostelitize. Please don't take any offense to this and I really don't mean to seem to jump on this point too strongly. If this paragraph scares you, you might want to think strongly about becoming an actual GT member. We typically don't take any of these sorts of things seriously enough to worry about them - which we believe lets us have more fun. (We like to stir up a bit of controversy when necessary, you see. Just to get people thinking.)

GT doesn't typically stage parties or gatherings without a defined purpose. We generally organize for a reason or cause. We haven't had much of one as of late, which is why we've been rather quiet, but when certain parties return to the Cavern, I'm sure we'll have reason again to gather. This is not to say that we don't gather informally and have fun! GT members have been known to tell ghost stories over campfires in Gira, fill Kemo tree branches with copious numbers of explorers, have impromptu dance parties in the egg rooms, and hunt the occasional Shroomie.

Hope this helps! You'll find if you stick around long enough that we don't fit the typical idea of a URU-related group. However, we also pride ourselves in our history how it ties in to the story of the Cavern, and also how we can be a driving force in the months to come. Among us are the ones that discovered what kind of a difference explorers can have. We truly are D'ni - the seeds and the branches and the growers.
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Rils
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian wrote:
GT doesn't typically stage parties or gatherings without a defined purpose.


I think that's one of the differences between us and many other Uru groups, and one of the things that has kept us going. We aren't a social club per se, we don't exist merely for the purpose of hanging out with eachother. So many other groups exist to do that - LC's roof party, Happy Hour, Spoken Word Night, etc etc etc. It is an attempt (and a really successful one, I might add) to keep life flowing through a dead cavern. And it seems that that attempt will be successful in reviving the Cavern!

TGT, on the other hand, has always been about ideas - the freedom to be and to learn and to grow at your own discretion, as opposed to being subject to others interpretation of your life. That idea is what has kept us going these past couple years, and what will enable us to renew our presence in the Cavern when it opens to Explorers again. It's not an exclusive idea, nor I think does it prevent us individually from also being a part of other organizations who exist to serve the community (ie Liaisons, DLA, Greeters, Explorer's Guild, etc).

Problem is, not everyone agrees with every idea. There will be people who agree with us, and will want to join their voice to ours. There will be people who disagree with us, who are content with the status quo and don't mind thinking within the box, and who will join their voices against ours. And there will be a neutral majority who don't really care on way or the other and just want to hang out and have fun. And that's fine!

Friendships are not based on what group you do or don't "belong" to. I myself hang with various crowds - sometimes I loiter in the GT hood, sometimes I go over to UO or Explorer's Guild to hang with friends there, or check out who's in the City and talk to new folks. The best times are often with 3 or 4 good buddies and we head out to someone's Age and jump waterfalls or race fireflies or play chicken on the Vault supports. But that isn't dependant on whether they are a Greeter or a Slacker or a Safety Firster (well, ok, maybe being a safety firster does matter... Twisted Evil )

One of the nice things about free will, you get to choose your own path. If you decide to journey with others for a bit, awesome. And if you don't, that is great too, and we can party together in the new City!
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Cycreim
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Great Tree transcends race, gender, nationality and creed, it's both a smaller thing (in that it's a small part of each of us) and, combined, its force is grand.

Flowery language aside, I dunno, we're a group of people who don't like to follow. The reason we turn to Yeesha because she shows us the most questions. Though the DRC shows us answers, they rarely answer the questions we ask. We do want answers, mind you, but we want to be trusted enough to find those answers on our own. And that's what brings us together.
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Daedalus
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even more good points from Brian, Rils, and Cycreim. I enjoy seeing so many on the same wavelength.

The thing we have to remember is that anything can happen down there in D'ni. I am sure that TGT will undergo some major changes in the first months of Live (and henceforth). My curiosity of where that will lead us as a group has been what keeps me here.

Many might disagree with things we do or say. Others will see it as a particular path they might choose to follow. TGT is meant to grow along with the events in Live, so tomorrow we might sing a very different tune. It is each person's choice whether or not they choose to involve themselves.
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brian
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 4:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It could very well be the case that this particular group becomes completely obsolete the minute Live starts. It could also well be the case that the leadership changes... or that we have a falling out among members.

In any event, those things would be interesting. We like making things interesting. Cool
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Daedalus
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mmmm... interesting things....
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