The Great Tree

[J'Kla]

Sorry if I have offended anybody this is not my intention.

If anything I am trying to provoke a serious debate not senseless argument.

My involvement has only strayed to the Great Tree because it is the only place I have been able to explore the possibilities offered by the environments that were added with Tpots.

The Cyan fan fiction licence restricts me to electronic media else I would simply write a book. Something Cyan have specifically blocked. They see this as something that can't be undone if a storyline conflicts with one of theirs.

Ashtar
I respect your right to close down your alcugs servers. I respect that there is nothing I can physically do to stop you should you so desire. Should Cyan so decree I would expect you to comply.

All I ask is that you entertain the possibility that the private shards represent a place where a storyteller like myself can explore the possibility of other original stories.

Professor
I can understand why you would hope that it was shard owners asking to preserve the private shards. But your comment and I quote
Quote:
"I say......wha?"

I find a little difficult to respond to.

I am reminded of the driver who berates pedestrians crossing the road in his path not realising the moment he steps out of his car he becomes one.

Explorers can be things in addition to explorers and If you want to explore future visions in the Myst universe someone has to write them. A need I am trying to fulfill. I concede this is not a totally selfless act as a writer has an inherent desire to be read.

Bogardan Mage
My dog may not be able to make up storyline but I assure you mine are far from random. I take a great deal of effort to mesh them into the existing facts and yes if the private shards eventually go forever I will have to find another medium.

I think you will be surprised to find the response I have received from the community. My storyline thing as you call it was at one time perceived as the future. I was not the only one exercising this freedom and I am glad that Cyan is back they were here first and writing in and around someone else’s story is particularly enjoyable.

There will probably always be those who call for a climate where the story is set in stone but the Myst/Uru universe has a dynamic that few other stories can ever have. The participants in the story change minute-by-minute one of the things I enjoy.

In short Yes I have the right to make up my own storyline. I have the right to share it with others. You have the right to criticise hate and deride that storyline. That is part of your freedoms I don't want to take that freedom away. If you don't like it don't read it.

Marten
Yes I see your scepticism and that of others around you and I see that as healthy. If anything I desire Live2 and the private shards both to survive and I make no secret I am working towards a situation where both continue in harmony.

One of my biggest arguments for maintaining the private shards is their ability to support other stories while they form. Stories are fragile things that start as two words "What if" and a there are millions of books published every year that show that those two words can grow to enjoyment for countless numbers of readers. Cyan have blocked that normal route of growth for the Myst universe and so it must grow in other ways.

Finaly back to Ashtar
Your desire for puzzles that were not solo lies at the heart of the online interactive world. If I was just going to write stories I could do that in a number of other ways. The online interactive medium allows for the creation of puzzles that have to be solved in collaborative ways. The starting point for these puzzles is a storyline and I hope you will see that your shards provide a medium I would struggle to find elsewhere.

This forum provides me with a place to nurture ideas that will keep the future of Uru dynamic and thriving and I hope my words can bring us to a place where we can all agree.

I choose to believe in a cyberspace big enough for Uru Live2 and the private shards and I will fight any darkness that even looks like it's trying to bring about the downfall of either.

[Bogardan Mage]

[J'Kla]

Why Borgordan Mage It as so nice to have some direct questions to answer.

1
The story to mesh too is the current story in the public domain within Uru and the Cavern I can write a story that lives in the cavern and interacts with it's own set of characters.

That is to say my storyline never tries to write the dialogue of an existing in game character, and cannot change the appearance of any in game feature, puzzle or location. In short a story written between the lines of the existing story without changing the structure or outcomes of that story.

2
I am sorry if you consider yourself to be misinterpreted I await enlightenment what did you mean?

3
My statement stands. If it is not what you are talking about why do you have a problem with it? I never said you were of that opinion. If you want to be part of that group that wants the story set in stone you can be I am not stopping you.

4
Every time you talk to someone in the Cavern you change the story Until you enter the cavern your character does not exist thereafter the very fact you were there changes the story even if you do not speak.

The only difference is I strive to be creative and I record my stories.

One of the nice things I sometimes wander the cavern as a created character and hold conversations with other characters. Those conversations are a dynamic of the cavern. You may already be a contributor to one of my stories.

5
You are correct
"Cyan don't owe me anything"
and you are also correct they
"don't owe me space to write my own story"
and again you are right
"the game belongs to Cyan"
you are even correct on the fact that I
"don't have to like what what they do with it"
this is stunning.

But I do have the right to make up my own story line as long as

1 I only distribute electronically.
2 No money changes hands for what I write.
3 Nothing I write conflicts with any current Cyan storyline.
4 I undo anything that at a later date conflicts with rule 3

All of the above is written into the third party fan fiction licence go ask Cyan I did. Cyan are beautiful people who consider their fans as an asset.

6
I was not saying you were or that you will do, only that you have the right to do so should you choose to.

If you feel you are being got at I am sorry. I cannot speak for the "trend of the month" considering my first ever post was 2 days ago. If you feel you are being misinterpreted perhaps you should consider your text with more care. I found your quip about "my storyline thing" quite bitchy but I am prepared to live with it.
I am quite passionate about it's future.

7
It is very much about reading the story. It currently stands at over 63,000 words of text the first 6 chapters circa 24,000 words are sitting at beta test on a private shard awaiting security approval from the United Shards. The story is tied into a puzzle release system a chapter at a time. And yes I do care about UU my current work requires a private shard to release and I can't release on D'mala.

I am currently looking at alternative additional release methods I would like to see if it could be released on The Great Tree alcugs server

I am deeply aware that not only would this would require prior approval I would need the skills of some fine programmers to implement the release.

[Ashtar]

[J'Kla]

I asked them about that and was told they did not want to expend resources looking at fan created stuff.

I did ask about who would approve and was told the shards would self police the content. That’s why I am actually waiting on the shard owners at United Shards.

United Shards main concern was the security aspect as the beta was created in python and any code had the potential to show would be idiots a back door into the shards.

Fortunately we have had a talented guy write a loader that prevents that hole opening up.

I don't pretend to understand the code but I am sure you would.

I am reticent to talk about this in open forum because the whole story relies on it's phased release. I happen to know one of the coders was involved with bug fixes on the private shards and I believe he also worked on alcugs servers. How involved I don't know but I am positive you will know of the work.

The whole storyline thing has been in flux with the situation over Kagi keys, that at least appears to be resolved with the statement that they will allow Kagi key handovers.

I totally agree with you if Cyan says algugs has to go then that’s it. I have always been aware of their right to veto shards. Or to close everything down if they choose.

What has been scaring me is the desire of some people trying to persuade them to do it. This has worried me less of late with a new avenue in play with the CCN.

Cyan are absolutely the final arbiters when it comes to all things Myst I have suffered from a lot of wild accusations from people that I am a wild card set on the downfall of Live2 nothing could be farther from the truth.

But you know how it goes there will always be some who see demonic motives in the most benign actions.

My beliefs and desires have always been public I have never had a hidden agenda.

I have had private conversations with representatives at Cyan and have respected and intend to continue to respect their desire not to make those conversations public.

My greatest desire would be a job at Cyan writing new story line. I have about as much chance of that as the mosquito on the elephant’s rump I have mentioned in earlier posts.

[Durin Mephit]

[Bogardan Mage]

[tkwiggins]

No disrespect to the posters on this thread, but I guess it don't understand it. The creative ethic of the whole fan-fiction thing, the age creators thing, I mean.

I understand the desire to do creative work. I don't understand the desire to co-opt someone else's creative work and rewrite it and redesign it and put it out as one's own, regardless if it lives up to the quality and direction of the original creators' vision. And I really don't understand those who gripe when the original creators don't give them permission to do so.

Seems to me that if you love what Cyan does, you'd want to do something other than what Cyan does. Out of respect.

But moving in on Cyan's creative worlds? Appointing oneself as amateur Cyanist? Leapfrogging off the backs of Cyan's creative efforts? Not very respectful, IMHO.

To me, if you've got the creative chops you do your own stuff. You invent your own worlds, your own characters. You work up a portfolio and go pro if you want. You get hired by Cyan or whoever and work under their direction, or start your own studio or publish your own stuff.

But this fan stuff...?

*shrug* Like I said, I guess I just don't get the creative ethic of it.

If there is one.

[J'Kla]

I guess you don't understand but it is a fine old tradition.

Just look at the amount of stuff staring Sherlock Holmes that was not written by Conan Doyle and all the stuff in the Trek universe.

There is room in any created universe for others to be creative. The skill lies in not changing the universe created but still telling another story.

I am creating other stuff in another universe of my own creation. The advantage of writing for an existing virtual universe is that it allready has a group of believers who know what is going on.

If I write for the Myst universe I don't have to explain linking books and I give credit to the creative tallent that invented that narative device.

If I want to write a story that uses linking books I can only do that in a Myst universe following rules set by the creator of that universe.

Cyan have blocked any option bar electronic media and their licence means I can't make money from this venture(not a gripe just stating the fact). They are people who understand the creative urge. All I can do is live within their rules and play the game as they set it out.

I will allways give them credit for that opertunity.

[Bogardan Mage]

J'Kla, I can understand that you might not want to go through all the meaningless drivel in my post, but could you please answer just one question: Why can't this be done on D'mala? That is all I want to know.

[J'Kla]

Sorry I did not intend to ignore the question.

The code extensions are written in Python and need an administrator to handle their end of the instalation.

D'mala has blocks and checks that prevent such code running on their shard.

The Prologue was written as a Python code extension like the UserKI and you know Cyan do not object to it on the private shards but are clear it must not run on D'mala.

Thats their choice and I don't object to that.

While Cyan does not want it on D'mala they have do objection to user/fan code on the private shards.

Cyan are very protective when it comes to D'mala. They don't have the admin on hand the same way the private shards do. This has to be the case as long as the community want them concentrating on Live2.

PS No discussion is "meaningless drivel" as you put it. I do read what anyone puts into a forum and take it on board. I just sometimes like to consider my reply and think about the proposal that's been put to me rather than fly off the handle.

Forums and e-mail is a delicate medium that can be missunderstood.

One of the reasons I try to look out for those that question my position so I can have a live discussion.

By the way I am still forumulating an answer to your last batch of questions. But you did throw me a biggy with the first one.

People appear to think I have a problem with Cyan (I don't) If I have a problem it is with those that object to me wanting to look around "outside the box".

Some would close the door and leave me outside but I bask in the knowledge that Cyan appear to have their foot in the door holding it open if they choose to close the door with me outside or inside I don't mind.

I like to think the box is robust and will take someone looking around outside. Think of me as an explorer looking otside so we can find the places where the box can be expanded.

[edit] And as allways it is Cyan who have the last say about acting on what I find outside [/edit]

[Durin Mephit]

I think you could have answered Bogardan Mage's question with fewer words, but I can't fault you for being thorough.
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Durin Mephit * Member of Guild of Messengers - Unless otherwise stated, opinions are mine only and not Guild endorsed.
rel.to | Marten KI: 59474 | Durin M KI: 11883768

[J'Kla]

Hey! I'm a writer.

[Bogardan Mage]

Right. So basically your complaint is "I want to mod a MMORPG in order to run my own storyline and if the private shards go down I won't be able to". You'll forgive me if I'm not overly sympathetic. The fact that you could do as much as you already have done is well beyond what most any other game would allow. Before Until Uru, you wouldn't have been able to do this. Why do you expect to be able to do it after Uru Live?

P.S. No, seriously, don't bother with my other questions. They're quite irrelevant in the face of this.

[Ashtar]

I think that's enough bickering for now. If J'Kla wants to host the Walker story, I'm willing to give him some server space to do so. If Cyan comes down with a request to remove it, he knows that I will have no choice but to do so. But I don't feel there is anything wrong with a storyteller wanting to tell his story

Ashtar
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Uru Live KI #: 69208