The Great Tree

[Durin Mephit]

Click here to jump to the Minutes posted below, which are much easier to read.

Or, Click here for the unedited log. Includes a smattering of private conversation, but eh... nothing that should upset anyone.
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Durin Mephit * Member of Guild of Messengers - Unless otherwise stated, opinions are mine only and not Guild endorsed.
rel.to | Marten KI: 59474 | Durin M KI: 11883768

[dcos]

Great meeting guys! Worked really well I think, even the ADM banter didn't detract from it too much. Huge log though

Here are a few pics I snapped. I took them before the meeting started properly so it actually got a bit more busy than in the pics. I counted roughly 50 or so people in the 'hood at one point.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b309/ever_fresh/KIimage0050.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b309/ever_fresh/KIimage0049.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b309/ever_fresh/KIimage0048.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b309/ever_fresh/KIimage0047.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b309/ever_fresh/KIimage0046.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b309/ever_fresh/KIimage0045.jpg

Actually that one wasn't from the open house but I thought Cyc or MJ might want a copy. The descent area makes a good meeting place!

Edit by Marten - changed embedded images to links - too big for forum!

[Rils]

Dang, sorry I missed it guys! I moved over the weekend and I'm still waiting for the Cable Guy to come hook my modem up again...

That's a huge log though, I think it'll take some time to wade through it all!
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[Durin Mephit]

I'll try to post a summary later, if no-one else volunteers.
_________________
Durin Mephit * Member of Guild of Messengers - Unless otherwise stated, opinions are mine only and not Guild endorsed.
rel.to | Marten KI: 59474 | Durin M KI: 11883768

[BladeLakem]

Of course, now comes the question - where do we go from here?
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MOULagain KI#27460

[Durin Mephit]

Minutes from the Day of Darkness meeting

These are more or less direct quotes, although I've re-ordered a few statements to make the threads of discussion easier to follow. I've removed a lot of heckling and side conversation, although one interruption was interesting so I've included it at the bottom.

Big thanks to Vortmax, who moderated the discussion.

Opening Commentary
Marten: We're here today to express our concern about the lack of communication in the cavern. We're here to express our concern for recent events. Groups threatening explorer freedom. Groups threatening communication. We're here because we feel that the explorers have lost their way in the dark. We need the DRC to communicate with us. We need Yeesha to tell us what she wants us to do... even if we choose not to listen. We need to know what part the Bahro will have in the Restoration. That is all the statement I've prepared for the moment. Before we move to the explorers, I'll give each of my fellow Great Tree members an opportunity to say anything they'd like to add.
Blade Lakem: Generally speaking, the Day of Darkness is intended to be a focal point for a shift in how we do things. Things here have been...tense... to put a word on it. We at the Great Tree felt it was time to step up and suggest a way to take more positive roles in the Restoration. There are still hard questions to be asked, of course. And there are things we as a community and individuals need to do. But we hope that this day will give us a central point from which we can approach them differently.
Cycreim: Rather than lashing out at the DRC, we should be calmer, kinder, and more patient. That doesn't mean we need to like them.
dcos: And there is no point in asking difficult questions if we don't even get answers to the simple ones. Opening the lines of communication is vital.
Cycreim: About the animals in Negilahn, for instance, cxevalo. Why they're disappearing. Just for one. Or about translations. Or about history. Simple questions with simple answers.
Marten: We see the DRC so infrequently. When they appear, they are often harassed. That doesn't encourage them to spend more time among us. When the issues were that areas were closed off with no explanation... there was an appropriate rsponse. That is not the response to use when we need more communication.
Blade Lakem: We have to ask ourselves some of the same questions. What sort of community we want to make down here. We can't count on others to do it for us.
Abel: You'd rather us ask questions than blame or harass them?
Cycreim: The DRC have answers that we don't, and the way to encourage communication is NOT to violently attack them with sarcastic barbs and accusations.
Marten: I'll answer that question with a question. Which do you think will be more effective in getting what we want?
Marten: We're ready to turn this over to you, the explorers, to say what you like about it now, though.

Explorer Statements
Abel: I would like to quickly address, harrasment inside the GOG Bevin. GOG is neutral, and recently we have experienced attacks, and disturbances from players who are against the said organizations. Please remind fellow cavern members, GOG is neutral, It is a place for help, not a place to get attention. I am refering to explorers who take advantage of the large crowds. We feel most explorers would like to have the GOG a help place, not a political fire pit. Thank you everyone.
Ja'run: I represent a group of likeminded individuals. We don't have a formal name, but for now we go by The Eyes of the Storm. We are a group open to anyone. Members of the DRC and even Yeesha herself. Members of the group may be have alliances with seperate factions, but the group itself is neutral. Our mission is simple. To use all resources available to us to find and investigate the truth. One person cannot see everything in the cavern at once. But we all can, if we work as one. We have not yet gone completely public yet, but we will soon and explain more about ourselves. I just thought I would mention us since everyone is starting to ask questions.
Kaelri: I represent a group called the Unbound Hearts of D'ni - some of you may have heard of us. I'm working on establishing a loose confederation between the smaller, non-partisan Bevins in the cavern, whom we will give a unified voice in the cavern, should the need ever arise, through our pending membership in the Assembly of Guilds. This is only one of the Unbound Hearts' services, but in this way, I think, we can start to create a unified line of communication throughout the cavern. If we're successful in this, then we can present ourselves to the DRC as a cohesive community awaiting their part in this Restoration.
AngelChild: OK what I really want to know is I don't think the DRC will tell us anything no matter how hard we try to be nice to them. I think for them it is need to know not want to know in our case. that is all I wanted to say.

Question from La'Fitte
La'Fitte: How do you plan to form a united voice in the cavern, the AoG or a separate group? Or should all of our groups with similar ideas just do our part in our own way?
Blade Lakem: I don't think just we can do it. It takes everyone who wants to work together. The AoG is part of that.
Marten: A good question. This is going to sound sappy... but I think it is about encouraging working together. No one group can do it alone. The Great Tree will be looking at the AoG, even though we are not a guild, to see how we fit in with it.
Kolian: I'm not sure whether the AoG is the thing to do it.
Blade Lakem: I think it's important not to duplicate efforts. We need to be aware of each other. Do we need to go it alone, or are their people already doing what we want. We should gather together with those of like mind, I think. There is no magic bullet. No one thing will work. But we hope that we'll all keep trying.
Marten: Although I have reservations about certain aspects of the AoG, I'm hoping those are out of ignorance. We'll be evaluating and talking to them. Kolian: Yes, that's one of my concerns.
Malakh: I think the point is we that we don't all have to be a part of a group to work together or from a different perspective we are all already a part of a group.. The Cavern
Cycreim: The AoG seems pretty cool. And yeah, It's great that we're all working in parallel. Small groups working together can get a lot done and can do a whole variety of things. There's no solution to all of our problems, or even the obfuscation that this day was meant to highlight... but working together will keep us united.
dcos: OverLike this day symbolises, we are all bumbling about in the dark a bit... but if we stick together for support eventually we'll work it out.

Question from Sorceress
Sorceress: I suppose my simple question is the most complicated: What can we do? Maybe when running into a DRC member, we can shoot the breeze on casual things before asking the "hard-hitting" questions? It might make them feel more at ease.
Blade Lakem: It sounds sort of cliche, but really, we have to rely on one another.
Cycreim: Well, you've read recent transcripts of chats with Cate. The best way seems to be to say something like, "can I ask a question?"
Kolian: Cate has resorted to the PR approach. She doesn't even seem to posess the knowledge most of us are looking for, however. I suspect they may be sending her out because she knows (or claims to know) very little.
Sorceress: I guess it would depend on who you're talking to. Casual conversation wouldn't seem to interest Kodama.
Malakh: Well. It is important to remember the DRC are people to and we should talk to them like they are.
Blade Lakem: In terms of talking to the DRC, civil yet persistant seems to work best.
Marten: Right. Try to be polite. Respectful. I know that some of us feel strongly... that we want answers. And so we demand answers. That can be off-putting. I think everyone has heard this at least once: It's not what you say; it's how you say it.
Cycreim: Beyond that, there are other ways we can attempt to bring us out of the darkness. Yeesha. The Bahro. There's a growing group of people attempting to communicate with the Bahro. Nothing may come of it, but any move in the direction of finding out more is good. Just keep pushing.
dcos: And might I suggest the same for yeesha and the bahro, politeness and respect.
Blade Lakem: In terms of what we can do otherwise? My suggestion - get involved.
Sorceress: This is a long shot, but maybe we can ask Laxman if it's possible to replay old imager messages? We last saw Yeesha as an imager recording.
Marten: Be nice and you might get more than if you're nasty. Try to create an inviting atmosphere. And please! If you meet a DRC member or Yeesha or have tea with the Bahro... tell them they're welcome to return and talk some more.
Cycreim: Yeah, next time you see Cate online, ask her if you could ask Laxman about something.

Question from SuperGram
SuperGram: This is going to be a bit long...sorry for that....I hope you'll have patience with me... I'm very concerned about the crrrent trend of the IC interaction in the cavern. TGT was the forefront in prologue. I a bit curious why TGT has been basically quiet up until now? Second part of the question.....Discussing the ongoing conflict in the cavern with Eric today....he said that Brian had planned to begin a movement closer to the Yahvo, Watcher, Builder, Grower line.....Any plans to go in thal
Cycreim: TGT has been quiet because of the very problems some of you may have noticed lately in response to the ADM. The climate was a lot different back in Prologue and we can't do the same things we used to do.
dcos: Additionally, the main problems at the moment are to do with communication and we've already outlined our thoughts on that. But above all we are a community of likeminded individuals.
Marten: Right. Times change... it is appropriate to marry the correct response to the situation.
Blade Lakem: We're different people, as players, as characters and as a community. A lot of us, new people and old guard, are trying to figure out where we fit. That takes time and thought. Hence this day. It's a starting point for us as well. And we hope that others will be of lke mind.
Cycreim: We're working out different ideas, and the regulars among us have different pet projects that we're pursuing. Some of which you may already have heard of, others of which you may hear of in the future.
Marten: As for the second half of the question...
Cycreim: As for Brian, I have no idea. That's news to me. As far as I know, Brian's been busy on the surface and hasn't had much time to get involved in Cavern.
Marten: Our official response is that we have no information on that. Because we don't! It's news to us. We're not a borg entity and we don't always know what each of us is up to... and furthermore, you can be a member of The Great Tree and other groups, so what Brian is talking about might even be independent of TGT. We don't demand exclusivity.
Blade Lakem: As for where we are going... well, we are figuring that out just as much as everyone else/shout but we know we want to do something - bring something back to the people and place that has meant so much to us.
Cycreim: If that's what he's working on, I'm surprised he didn't tell us, though.
Marten: We'll certainly be asking him about it now. Thank you.
SuperGram: Sorry that was something way back in prologue I believe. And TY.

Question from Curty
Curty: This question is more directed to Marten, I was just wondering when the next documentry is scheduled to be released to the explorers to see our back story/history?
Marten: This week, Curty. I do apologize for the long delay. It has been an ordeal I won't discuss here.

Question from Thend
Thend: In a perfect Cavern, how do you see The Great Tree and their place in it in the future, both with the DRC (what is the ultimate give-and-take you are seeking) and the community as a whole. Also, how does this perfect view have The Great Tree truly and specifically distinguishing itself from all the other organizations around now of somewhat similar types?
Cycreim: In a perfect cavern, we'd all be Great Tree members. Which would make the group pretty moot, but that's the point. We've maintained from the start that we're ALL part of the Great Tree, if not our little neighbourhood.
Blade Lakem: There are a lot of other groups who have similar goals and ideas. That's great. We want to work with every one of them. As the Great Tree, and as individuals.
Marten: In a perfect cavern, the DRC would talk to us, Yeesha's motives would be clear, and we would understand the Bahro. And we hope to get to that point, with everyone's help.
Curty: I believe it is very important to know your roots, history and where you came from. As well as some of you may have not known that The Great Tree was one of the first to start the famous "sit ins"
SuperGram: And I believe have learned from past events. Personally I think that's what this is all about...They do have the background for learning from experience.
Cycreim: In a perfect cavern, everything we say and do would matter, and we souldn't have to fight quite so hard to find things out. We'd be in a garden maze, not quite sure where we're going, rather than a brutal obstacle course designed to tire us out.

Statement from Joy Electric
Joy Electric:: I'd like to ask that if anyone sees Cate to ask her to have the carcass (ewww, I know) towed in front of the window in Negilahn so that we explorers may confirm for ourselves that it was a predator which should put to rest our suspicions and fears. thanks.

Statement from No'ga
No'ga: I think a good way to bring us out of "darkness" would be to "light up the cavern" be that with new information or other forms light. That is all. Take it as you will.

Statement from La'Fitte
La'Fitte: The Anti Drc group has the potential to be cancerous in the cavern. I think our first goal should be to see that explorers know the truth about there group. Their rhetoric should not be placed on new, naive explorers.

Question from Kaelri
Kaelri: I think one of the problems that we're having with communication this time around is the sheer size of the community. There are *vastly* greater numbers crawling around this cavern, and probably an equal leap upward in the percentage of those who are here without the slightest idea of what's going on. Do you know of any suggestions as to how to manage this specific challenge - how much harder it is for one individual or group just to get everyone's attention? (Without, that is, resorting to the ADM's tactics, which La'Fitte aptly described as "cancerous.") Our rhetoric is for the improvement of the community, theirs is for nothing but pessimism.
dcos: I would like to answer the question posed- D'net.
Cycreim: Good question Kaelri. It's a rough balance. More explorers down here mean that the DRC will be able to hire more people to restore the Ages. Even if they just fix them up enough, like with Tetsonot... That also means that there will be more DRC to talk to us.
Marten: On how to manage the massive crowds...
Blade Lakem: We can't manage them in any large scale way. We manage them one person at a time.
Marten: All I can say to that is... like Blade suggests... manage it one person at a time. Share your knowledge with others. Help new explorers. Point them to resources. Don't expect a perfect world; some explorers will be exposed to biased opinions. It takes time to teach people out of preconceived notions. And not everyone will listen.
Cycreim: Massive crowds are good, I don't see anything wrong with them other than the fact that it means news spreads like molasses on a honeycomb. D'net does a great job of spreading the word to a lot of people, we like them.
dcos: And the more it is used the more effective it will become.

Side Discussion - The Past of The Great Tree
Curty: Don't forget guys that The Great Tree was not to far off from the Anti-DRC in its time guys
Marten: Eh, we never accused the DRC of something that was patently false
Curty: They were stiring up stuff just like everyone else
Blade Lakem: Sometimes stirring things up is necessary. But you do it thoughtfully.
Curty: Just stating the truth just as every one else has with the other groups.
Blade Lakem: Curty's right. The Great Tree has a fiesty past.
Marten: We won't deny it. We're proud of it. We like to think that we're flexible and we look for the appropriate solution. There are times where protests are appropriate. But you need to know your audience.
Cycreim: It seemed appropriate at the time, and it very well might have been. A few mistakes were made but I think we laid a few stones in the foundation of a hourse that's not quite built yet.
DocOlanA: I think that we should be somewhat forgiving of the learning curve of a revolutionary organization. My first few didn't turn out well either.

Wrap-up and Event Announcements
Marten: Alright. Vortmax, that was the last question, correct?
Vortmax: Yup Marten
dcos: In that case thank you all for coming and thanks for all the questions and thoughts!
Vortmax: D'Net the organization is neutral. Its members may not be.
Bothinator: D'Net?
Vortmax: The D'ni Network. D'ni Network is an explorer organization trying to increase communications in Cavern. go to www.dninetwork.net .
DocOlanA: Hey, I'm not GT or ADM. I'm pleasantly neutral. I'm just interested in History and stuff. *Cough* Like the history you learn coming to the Students of D'ni Knowledge meetings, every Sunday night at 8 PM CT in the Students of D'ni Knowledge's Bevin. That kind of history. *cough*
Cycreim: Oh by the way, may as well plug this now... Cavern Arts Collective meeting this Friday, In The Great Tree's Delin. 6 PM Cavern Time.
Kaelri: Ah... I've invited the Bevin reps to my meeting at 7 PM, so hopefully there won't be overlap issues. By the way, if anyone knows how I can contact Ja'run or the Eyes of the Storm, please PM me. They and I have a lot to talk about.
_________________
Durin Mephit * Member of Guild of Messengers - Unless otherwise stated, opinions are mine only and not Guild endorsed.
rel.to | Marten KI: 59474 | Durin M KI: 11883768

[Erik]

Thumbs up! A lot of good discussing during the day...

And dcos, did you return to the cavern again, or did you get a visitor pass?